Unbelievable Move

[HansBolter]

I just witnessed a Japanese tank drive across the water. Didn't know they had amphibious tanks.

What is the purpose of having the road out of Moulmien head north and then turn southwest along the coast if units can simply take a diagonal shortcut across the water?

This seriously needs to be fixed.

[BillRunacre]

Do you have a saved turn you can send me, or screenshots showing the situation before/after?

Saves can be found here:
%HOMEPATH%\Documents\My Games\Strategic Command WWI\Save

[HansBolter]

Saves are too large for me to send via email.

I didn't save after watching the garrison in Moulmein get destroyed and the tank bypass the cavalry by skirting across the water.

The pic is from the turn before that I restored after watching the debacle. I subsequently moved the cavalry to that hex to prevent the move.

As can be guessed, the presence of the cavalry denotes that this a modded game.

[BillRunacre]

I have managed to replicate this, and will have a think about it.
______

In terms of save files, alternatives would be to send me a save via Dropbox or WeTransfer:

https://wetransfer.com/

I don't need one for this now that I have been able to replicate this, but I mention it more because I am still intrigued by the Austro-Hungarian raiding issue.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I have managed to replicate this, and will have a think about it.
______

In terms of save files, alternatives would be to send me a save via Dropbox or WeTransfer:

https://wetransfer.com/

I don't need one for this now that I have been able to replicate this, but I mention it more because I am still intrigued by the Austro-Hungarian raiding issue.

I know about these sea-land tiles from the Beta and there were discussions about it. I believe the consensus was to let land units cross so that Japan could take down Rangoon fast like historical.

Historically the Japanese easily went round the Commonwealth defensive position at Moulmien.
Because of the scale of this map, it was best to not change one of those hex/tiles to a straight sea hex (tile). Otherwise the Allies could create a harder choke...and completely stop the Japanese initial rush.
Also the map would be altered as to make the whole area look weird. It's the scale. This is Grand Strategic, not Operational. If it was a different scale and a Burma operational scale map then there would be no problem having the narrow estuary sea hexes.

My recommendation is to leave it be, or you would have to restructure that whole area of the map and test the consequences.
My opinion is that it seriously DOES NOT need to be fixed...........

We also dealt with this issue testing Elessar's WitP SC-Mod which uses a polar projection map. Elessar fiddled with his map too so that that particular area wasn't made into an impossible to break choke.

[HansBolter]

I'm not interested in recreating history.

It appears as a bogus move to the casual observer that shouldn't be allowed.

The Japanese have attacked across that bay every turn.

As is evidenced by it being duplicated, it isn't due to me modding terrain. All I edited were units.
However, I will now look into editing the terrain.

Is it possible to create a land movement/attack block when editing terrain? Haven't yet familiarized myself with terrain editing as I had no interest in it until now.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I'm not interested in recreating history.

It appears as a bogus move to the casual observer that shouldn't be allowed.

The Japanese have attacked across that bay every turn.

As is evidenced by it being duplicated, it isn't due to me modding terrain. All I edited were units.
However, I will now look into editing the terrain.

Is it possible to create a land movement/attack block when editing terrain? Haven't yet familiarized myself with terrain editing as I had no interest in it until now.

It's not a water hex/tile. It's a coastal hex...which is a land hex. That tile that is used has a water inlet so a map designer can mirror the geography and link with adjacent coastal land hex/tiles. There is a pool of other coastal tiles in the editor to choose from.
So those Japanese units are doing a legal move...as designed.
I hope that makes sense. It just looks like a lake/sea hex tile because there's more water than land portrayed in that particular land tile.

[HansBolter]

I'm not as dense as you seem to believe.

I understand that as designed it's a legal move.
My problem is with the "as designed" aspect.

It simply shouldn't be a legal move.

Unfortunately, I found no ability to create a block to land movement or attack in the editor, so this is something only those in control of the game code can repair.

[Feinder]

I can see how the narrow spit of land, might easily be not-seen (and then to reasonably assume there to be a corner there). If you simply changed the visual representation of the hex, so that the coastal hex had more "land" behind it (ie made it more obvious to be a land connector), there would be considerably less "debate" over the whole thing.

Easy-peasy.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I'm not as dense as you seem to believe.

I understand that as designed it's a legal move.
My problem is with the "as designed" aspect.

It simply shouldn't be a legal move.

Unfortunately, I found no ability to create a block to land movement or attack in the editor, so this is something only those in control of the game code can repair.

Ok 'Panzer Ace', I never said you were dense. You are in fact just the opposite. But, reading hundreds of your posts has shown me that you have a penchant to put words and thoughts of others in your comments like your some kind of mind reader.

Also while you post quite legitimate observations, you sully it with shade against devs and others that take the time to help.
There's quite a lot of conversation in the 'back lot' about how you are interacting with other folks here on the forums.

As for hexside blocks. There are ways to do that with lake tiles.
There are numerous places I have found or discovered where hexsides are blocking movement.
One place is on the Shadow of the Tsars (Russian Civil War) scenario at the narrow neck of Lake Peipus along the Estonian frontier. There are others but I would have to think on that.
How that is designed, I am not sure. But it is a feature.

[OldCrowBalthazor]

Here's an example of a hex-side that is blocked for land movement. There are a few that are in the Strategic Command ecosystem. So there is some mechanism to make a hex-side block. I just am not familiar how to make that work...but work it does.
This image is from the scenario Shadow of the Tsar (Russian Civil War) that comes with the DLC 'Empires in Turmoil' for SC-WW1

[HansBolter]

I appreciate your help in teaching me how to create a land block.

I really couldn't care less about the "back lot" conversation about me.

Been here a long time and am well known for my blunt and direct manner.
I never hesitate to call a spade a spade.
It's neither my fault, nor my problem that some people are thin skinned and take offense at a blunt and direct manner.
I will also never kowtow to devs or moderators.
Devs need to be told when they have screwed up.
I'm the man for that job!

[Unfortunate Son]

I appreciate your help in teaching me how to create a land block.

I really couldn't care less about the "back lot" conversation about me.

Been here a long time and am well known for my blunt and direct manner.
I never hesitate to call a spade a spade.
It's neither my fault, nor my problem that some people are thin skinned and take offense at a blunt and direct manner.
I will also never kowtow to devs or moderators.
Devs need to be told when they have screwed up.
I'm the man for that job!

I have been watching this thread and I feel the need to chime in here. Why do you feel you need to be "The man for the job" if the "Devs need to be told when they have screwed up." How are they screwing up? It's their work (game) they can develop it as they see fit. They do have play testers and discussions regarding game play and game balance etc..
The developers also listen to their customers (gamers) with certain situations, game mechanics, OOB, bugs or whatever might pop up that someone finds or feels needs to be changed. The developers to a great job in my opinion in this regard by listening and also making changes to the game and giving players credit for the change.
Plus the developers built in the "game the editor" so you as a player can mod the game to your liking.
The hex in question here as OCB mentioned was discussed and the final outcome was to leave it as is. Also that hex is a two way hex and not have movement in one direction only. So this would have a benefit to either player. Plus by not allowing movement in the hex in question would be too much of a choke point for the Axis player.
I'm glad you recognize that OCB is trying to help you. Because thats exactly what he has been doing and not being condescending.
My 2cents.

[Elessar2]

I'm not as dense as you seem to believe.

I understand that as designed it's a legal move.
My problem is with the "as designed" aspect.

It simply shouldn't be a legal move.

Unfortunately, I found no ability to create a block to land movement or attack in the editor, so this is something only those in control of the game code can repair.

This is a classic What You See Is What You Get game design issue; as a game designer there may not be an optimal solution to minimize confusion of this sort. Those two tiles likely have a tiny bit of land connecting them, but with all the roads and units and terrain clutter it may not be obvious:



Yes, it can be redrawn to eliminate said move and require a longer path:



OCB covered another example above, and it is even worse for ships because it looks like they should be able to navigate down those narrow straits, but those are classified as two land tiles, which don't allow ships. Yes, there are several tiles which allow such a strait to be crossed by BOTH unit types, but that example would need to be redrawn, which for Lake Peipus on my map it has been :



For a map designer it is crucial to keep all that in mind, else gameplay may reveal that a passable area isn't.

[HansBolter]

I appreciate your help in teaching me how to create a land block.

I really couldn't care less about the "back lot" conversation about me.

Been here a long time and am well known for my blunt and direct manner.
I never hesitate to call a spade a spade.
It's neither my fault, nor my problem that some people are thin skinned and take offense at a blunt and direct manner.
I will also never kowtow to devs or moderators.
Devs need to be told when they have screwed up.
I'm the man for that job!

I have been watching this thread and I feel the need to chime in here. Why do you feel you need to be "The man for the job" if the "Devs need to be told when they have screwed up." How are they screwing up? It's their work (game) they can develop it as they see fit. They do have play testers and discussions regarding game play and game balance etc..
The developers also listen to their customers (gamers) with certain situations, game mechanics, OOB, bugs or whatever might pop up that someone finds or feels needs to be changed. The developers to a great job in my opinion in this regard by listening and also making changes to the game and giving players credit for the change.
Plus the developers built in the "game the editor" so you as a player can mod the game to your liking.
The hex in question here as OCB mentioned was discussed and the final outcome was to leave it as is. Also that hex is a two way hex and not have movement in one direction only. So this would have a benefit to either player. Plus by not allowing movement in the hex in question would be too much of a choke point for the Axis player.
I'm glad you recognize that OCB is trying to help you. Because thats exactly what he has been doing and not being condescending.
My 2cents.

The reason I feel the "need" is because none of the rest of seem willing to take on that job.

I respect snd appreciate the work the devs put into their product, just as I expect to have the product I produce respected and appreciated. This does not, however exempt them, just as I am not exempted from criticism for my failures.

The high prevalence of posters here who invest thier time in being fawning sycophants of the devs is abhorrent to me. They don't deserve our worship. Only the Lord God Almighty is deserving of worship.

And to the guy who to stated that he read HUNDREDS of my former posts......you seriously need to get a life. That's just about as sick as it gets and borders on STALKING. I strongly urge him to get some professional help.

[HansBolter]

Ellesar2,

I appreciate the effort you put into illustrating the challenges in map design.

[BillRunacre]

The high prevalence of posters here who invest thier time in being fawning sycophants of the devs is abhorrent to me. They don't deserve our worship. Only the Lord God Almighty is deserving of worship.

Actually, they can be quite critical at times - which is of course welcome.

Anyway, I hope this particular discussion can now end and we can return to discussing the game, editing, playing etc, and of course the most important thing: having fun!