Hi all.
I understand that every major new update is bound to include all new bugs and glitches. But is it possible to just have one build, focused on extensively, to get rid of all bugs and make it as glitch free as possible and keep it up so some of us can just stick with it instead of new updates all the time?
I've got scenario's I built over a year ago I haven't finished playing because each new update comes with new bugs that make playing it miserable with my micromanage style of play. At this point, I'd much rather just be able to play the game frustration free instead of the new features etc. Can't we do both?
Thanks.
One Bug Free Version
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caelunshun
- Posts: 130
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Re: One Bug Free Version
Get ready for a firestorm....
Re: One Bug Free Version
Hi,
Can you please open 3, 4 tickets in this same subforum with the most annoying issues you've been experiencing?
Provide with each issue a save before the issue happens so we can check what's happening
Thank you
Can you please open 3, 4 tickets in this same subforum with the most annoying issues you've been experiencing?
Provide with each issue a save before the issue happens so we can check what's happening
Thank you
Re: One Bug Free Version
Hi Blu3s.
The latest bug in the newest update I've already posted in the tech forum and has been marked as fixed for the next update (Mission start times being ignored).
And all the previous annoying bugs with each new update for the last year have all been fixed when the next updates come out. What is so frustrating is how often in the last year each new update comes with a new set of basic bugs that ruins gameplay.
I'm just wondering if it's possible to focus on one single stable bug free build that we can keep up at all times to easily play or resort back to, while still developing new improvements and updates as well.
I guess I should not have posted this in the tech forum, but the general forum instead. Sorry about that.
The latest bug in the newest update I've already posted in the tech forum and has been marked as fixed for the next update (Mission start times being ignored).
And all the previous annoying bugs with each new update for the last year have all been fixed when the next updates come out. What is so frustrating is how often in the last year each new update comes with a new set of basic bugs that ruins gameplay.
I'm just wondering if it's possible to focus on one single stable bug free build that we can keep up at all times to easily play or resort back to, while still developing new improvements and updates as well.
I guess I should not have posted this in the tech forum, but the general forum instead. Sorry about that.
Re: One Bug Free Version
Hi Tred,
It is, I think, this "shifting of the ground under your feet" that causes you the greatest upheaval. You would, I suspect, be perfectly content with a "long-term stable release" (similar to the LTS builds in some Linux distributions) which would be "immutable" in terms of both features and major known issues; you would enjoy the former in peace and simply work around the latter, safe in the knowledge that you will not have to re-adjust to new oddities in a few months.
I am sorry to inform you that such a release is not currently in our development roadmap and is unlikely to be in the foreseeable future. There are, however, a number of options for achieving a similar effect on your own:
1) If you are using the standalone (Matrix installer) version: Find the current version you are comfortable with, grab the current versions of the DB-image pack and the community scenario pack, and never click on the "Check updates" button on the launcher applet. Your game will never expire, and will continue to work as long as the underlying OS supports it (probably for a while). This is, I think, the most convenient option for you.
2) If you are using Steam: Here things get a bit trickier because the Steam client loves to force-feed updated versions. However there are a few known workarounds:
* Offline Mode: You can run Steam in Offline Mode to prevent all updates, but you lose access to online features and some games may not run without an internet connection.
* Make appmanifest file read-only: Locate the game's appmanifest_*.acf file in your steamapps folder and set it to "read-only" in file properties. This can sometimes block updates, but it's not foolproof and may cause Steam errors or force a re-download.
* Backup and restore game files: Back up your game folder. If an update is forced, restore your backup after the update.
* Use the 32-bit release branch, which is unlikely to be updated going forward.
3) If you have purchased CMANO in the past, you can try to use that: It's the epitome of a stable release with known features and issues that are highly unlikely to change in the future (the last CMANO update was IIRC on March 2020).
4) Going completely outside of the CMANO/CMO lineage, there are a few options for older games that are unlikely to be updated in the future. Harpoon II or Harpoon 3, Jane's Fleet Command, Naval War: Arctic Circle, Cold Waters, even the old Strike Fleet is a candidate depending on your tastes. You should be able to find most of these titles either on Steam or in alternative e-shops like GOG, Epic etc. Abandonware sites may also be helpful for any title that has gone completely out of official circulation. (You could also try Sea Power, but this otherwise nice game currently changes at an even more frantic pace than CMO, so I am uncertain it will provide you the serenity you have in mind.)
I do hope that somehow you will eventually find the tranquility I think you are looking for. Thanks.
I could be wrong, but from your description I suspect that the source of your frustration with the game is not the existence of bugs per se (surely you are smart and experienced enough to realize that non-trivial software = bugs), but the fact that the "bug baseline" changes with each major release: Many of the existing issues are fixed, and new bugs are introduced both as the result of new features and also because of the changes necessary to fix the previously known issues.Tred wrote: Tue Jul 08, 2025 9:04 pm I understand that every major new update is bound to include all new bugs and glitches. But is it possible to just have one build, focused on extensively, to get rid of all bugs and make it as glitch free as possible and keep it up so some of us can just stick with it instead of new updates all the time?
I've got scenario's I built over a year ago I haven't finished playing because each new update comes with new bugs that make playing it miserable with my micromanage style of play. At this point, I'd much rather just be able to play the game frustration free instead of the new features etc. Can't we do both?
It is, I think, this "shifting of the ground under your feet" that causes you the greatest upheaval. You would, I suspect, be perfectly content with a "long-term stable release" (similar to the LTS builds in some Linux distributions) which would be "immutable" in terms of both features and major known issues; you would enjoy the former in peace and simply work around the latter, safe in the knowledge that you will not have to re-adjust to new oddities in a few months.
I am sorry to inform you that such a release is not currently in our development roadmap and is unlikely to be in the foreseeable future. There are, however, a number of options for achieving a similar effect on your own:
1) If you are using the standalone (Matrix installer) version: Find the current version you are comfortable with, grab the current versions of the DB-image pack and the community scenario pack, and never click on the "Check updates" button on the launcher applet. Your game will never expire, and will continue to work as long as the underlying OS supports it (probably for a while). This is, I think, the most convenient option for you.
2) If you are using Steam: Here things get a bit trickier because the Steam client loves to force-feed updated versions. However there are a few known workarounds:
* Offline Mode: You can run Steam in Offline Mode to prevent all updates, but you lose access to online features and some games may not run without an internet connection.
* Make appmanifest file read-only: Locate the game's appmanifest_*.acf file in your steamapps folder and set it to "read-only" in file properties. This can sometimes block updates, but it's not foolproof and may cause Steam errors or force a re-download.
* Backup and restore game files: Back up your game folder. If an update is forced, restore your backup after the update.
* Use the 32-bit release branch, which is unlikely to be updated going forward.
3) If you have purchased CMANO in the past, you can try to use that: It's the epitome of a stable release with known features and issues that are highly unlikely to change in the future (the last CMANO update was IIRC on March 2020).
4) Going completely outside of the CMANO/CMO lineage, there are a few options for older games that are unlikely to be updated in the future. Harpoon II or Harpoon 3, Jane's Fleet Command, Naval War: Arctic Circle, Cold Waters, even the old Strike Fleet is a candidate depending on your tastes. You should be able to find most of these titles either on Steam or in alternative e-shops like GOG, Epic etc. Abandonware sites may also be helpful for any title that has gone completely out of official circulation. (You could also try Sea Power, but this otherwise nice game currently changes at an even more frantic pace than CMO, so I am uncertain it will provide you the serenity you have in mind.)
I do hope that somehow you will eventually find the tranquility I think you are looking for. Thanks.
Re: One Bug Free Version
Apart form the fact that no trivial software can be bug free, I think that the frustration arrives when things that were working are not working in new versions.
From the outside and without knowing the inner classes and interaction between them you sometimes wonder why adding a new feature like "complex UAVs" breaks, let's say, the ToT in the planner. Probably it doesn't... it´s just another thing that broke the later, more likely while fixing another bug.
Staying on the version "you like the most" is good advice. Not installing the Betas is good advice. But if I install the latest official release form Matrix, I may or may not play with the new UAV features; I'm dying to see my harpoons being blocked by land masses; and those features will come with their own set of unexpected behaviors and glitches; but, why, oh why!, are manual refueling orders being ignored?
Regression bugs are also inevitable, but, at the same time, without knowing the full set of tests that are passed nightly with every software build I would say that a "sprint" or whatever development mode you use, is needed to be focused on creating regression tests that would try to avoid things like the refueling mess over the last few versions, planes not following waypoints or wingmen doing different things from their leaders (flight altitude, WRA differences, weapon allocation...). Those are bugs that resurface several times.
Please take it as a constructive suggestion from someone outside the team with over 30 years of proven experience on software development and testing, but with zero knowledge of this particular team's formation, capacity or resources availability.
Cheers!
From the outside and without knowing the inner classes and interaction between them you sometimes wonder why adding a new feature like "complex UAVs" breaks, let's say, the ToT in the planner. Probably it doesn't... it´s just another thing that broke the later, more likely while fixing another bug.
Staying on the version "you like the most" is good advice. Not installing the Betas is good advice. But if I install the latest official release form Matrix, I may or may not play with the new UAV features; I'm dying to see my harpoons being blocked by land masses; and those features will come with their own set of unexpected behaviors and glitches; but, why, oh why!, are manual refueling orders being ignored?
Regression bugs are also inevitable, but, at the same time, without knowing the full set of tests that are passed nightly with every software build I would say that a "sprint" or whatever development mode you use, is needed to be focused on creating regression tests that would try to avoid things like the refueling mess over the last few versions, planes not following waypoints or wingmen doing different things from their leaders (flight altitude, WRA differences, weapon allocation...). Those are bugs that resurface several times.
Please take it as a constructive suggestion from someone outside the team with over 30 years of proven experience on software development and testing, but with zero knowledge of this particular team's formation, capacity or resources availability.
Cheers!
Re: One Bug Free Version
Thank you for the prompt response Dimitris (and thank you for moving this to the general forum from tech form, where I should have posted it originally).
So before I get into trying to clarify my gripes, let me say that I love you guys, the work you do, and I love the game. I have since I bought CAMANO not long after its release. So please keep all that in mind with the following...
I'm a mostly computer illiterate Gen Xer. But I have played cpu wargames for a long time. You wrote:
For instance in big, complex scenarios I had built myself up until recently most of them are consistently either unplayable with each new update or frustratingly annoying to play with the new bugs in basic features of the game in each new update. One scenario in particular I built two years ago involving preempting North Korea, I have yet to be able to finish because of this. I was looking back at the issues that made it so for me, and after a quick scan, here's what I mean:
The latest 1.08 B1676 update is playable...but with mission start times ignored it ruins the whole scenario to play. After the OODA loop ends, it's a free-for-all, instead of the time built into my scenario to try and accomplish specific objectives before further consequences intervene. It's playable...but the scenario is ruined.
Prior to that the were the recent new, basic BETA issues: B1645 issue with helicopters ordered to take off with no mission immediately returning to base after take off was annoying. But I could still play, just ignoring all helicopter aspects of the game. B1662: Flights refusing to climb to ordered altitude also was hugely annoying. I could play...but I mean....
The 1.07 B1567 bug that froze that scenario every time when unguided munitions were fired...made that scenario again, unplayable.
1.07 B1500 introduced aircraft not responding to RTB orders or plotted courses.
1.07 B1459 bug where plotted courses would be cancelled was annoying for small scenarios but in large ones with micro-managed style, made it almost unplayable.
1.06 B1436 gave us that strange bug where half my ships immediately began running to UNREP at startup, even to ships that didn't have UNREP capability, and you could not manually override it. Made the scenario unplayable.
1.06 B1405 had a similar bug, where after an a/c unit fired its standoff weapons, they'd no longer follow manually plotted courses and begin spinning in place. Now, it didn't make the game unplayable except for those like me who like to micro-manage and have built large scenarios...having to reissue orders to every unit after firing a standoff missile and replot courses...made my scenario, again, unplayable.
It seems we entered this phase of long working basic game functions being messed up with each new update (As I look back on my own posts in the tech forum) early last year at the start of the 'dark age' with update issues. 1.06 B1328.9 I see was when wingmen in aircraft groups began flying off and doing random things and would not obey manual plot orders. Again, it wasn't technically unplayable...but for micro-managed style of play in large scenarios it might as well have been. The same with a litany of things through last summers 'dark age' on updates: Planes RTB after firing primary weapon in spite of doctrine settings; Groups not changing throttle orders after plotted courses; a/c ignoring flight paths when 'engaged offensive' in spite of doctrine settings, etc.
The cumulative effect of these has been...waiting for the next update to get one basic set of bugs fixed (Which you all have always done well) only to see yet another one pop up.
I get that there will always be bugs. I know no game is perfect. I don't expect perfect. I don't even mind the Refueling issues, or CEC glitches we've had etc....as long as the basic manual orders of the game, things that always and need to work, continue to do so. The frustrations are, as Mike points out, those basic aspects of game play that always did work, popping up over and over with each new upgrade so often.
So that's what I meant by asking if it was possible to leave one stable build open (easy to download for those of us who are technically challenged) where the basic functions of the game are as bug free as possible to play, while also continuing with the fun new upgrades the game has always done so well.
Again, I LOVE this game. I've learned so much about modern warfare because of it (esp. how missiles actually work...and which caused so much strife). So I Don't want any of that to end, and I don't mind the subtle bugs as all that gets worked out. I just want to finally be able to play the thing through in my micro-managed style of play like I always used to be able to do, but haven't been able to do of late.
But thank you again for the response. I do think I need to bail on STEAM...too many times it has forced an update on me that I didn't want to happen. I'll consider that.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a build that is the least basic-bug-free for a micro-manage style of play: Post Tiny Update, until now? (And you want to walk me through how to get back to it as if you had to explain to a 5th grader? LOL).
I still love the developer team and appreciate all they hard work they do and I Still love the game. So much so, I desperately want to just...play it - all my old huge scenario's I built long ago. So, I hope I didn't stir the pot up too much or offend anyone with all this. Call it venting for the sake of catharsis! lol.
Thanks everyone.
So before I get into trying to clarify my gripes, let me say that I love you guys, the work you do, and I love the game. I have since I bought CAMANO not long after its release. So please keep all that in mind with the following...
I'm a mostly computer illiterate Gen Xer. But I have played cpu wargames for a long time. You wrote:
You're not wrong. I understand that there will always be bugs. That this is a complicated level of coding and new bugs and issues are always going to pop up. The frustrations in the last few years are touched on by mikerohan:Dimitris wrote: Wed Jul 09, 2025 7:11 am I could be wrong, but from your description I suspect that the source of your frustration with the game is not the existence of bugs per se (surely you are smart and experienced enough to realize that non-trivial software = bugs), but the fact that the "bug baseline" changes with each major release: Many of the existing issues are fixed, and new bugs are introduced both as the result of new features and also because of the changes necessary to fix the previously known issues.
I don't mind or care much about little things: If db issues aren't accurate, or weapons effect calculations are off, or even most of the inevitable bugs that come from complex mission planning etc. As long as the basic functionality of basic aspects of the game work. This is why I've personally, always engaged in a micro-manage style of play...if subtle bugs mess up complex mission plans, etc., I'm fine, I'll just manually override the issues and command specific units or groups to do what I want them to. This has worked well for me in almost all my wargaming experience and worked wonderfully with CAMANO and CMO until the last year and a half or so. Since then, the frustrations have multiplied.mikerohan wrote: Wed Jul 09, 2025 7:51 pm Apart form the fact that no trivial software can be bug free, I think that the frustration arrives when things that were working are not working in new versions.
For instance in big, complex scenarios I had built myself up until recently most of them are consistently either unplayable with each new update or frustratingly annoying to play with the new bugs in basic features of the game in each new update. One scenario in particular I built two years ago involving preempting North Korea, I have yet to be able to finish because of this. I was looking back at the issues that made it so for me, and after a quick scan, here's what I mean:
The latest 1.08 B1676 update is playable...but with mission start times ignored it ruins the whole scenario to play. After the OODA loop ends, it's a free-for-all, instead of the time built into my scenario to try and accomplish specific objectives before further consequences intervene. It's playable...but the scenario is ruined.
Prior to that the were the recent new, basic BETA issues: B1645 issue with helicopters ordered to take off with no mission immediately returning to base after take off was annoying. But I could still play, just ignoring all helicopter aspects of the game. B1662: Flights refusing to climb to ordered altitude also was hugely annoying. I could play...but I mean....
The 1.07 B1567 bug that froze that scenario every time when unguided munitions were fired...made that scenario again, unplayable.
1.07 B1500 introduced aircraft not responding to RTB orders or plotted courses.
1.07 B1459 bug where plotted courses would be cancelled was annoying for small scenarios but in large ones with micro-managed style, made it almost unplayable.
1.06 B1436 gave us that strange bug where half my ships immediately began running to UNREP at startup, even to ships that didn't have UNREP capability, and you could not manually override it. Made the scenario unplayable.
1.06 B1405 had a similar bug, where after an a/c unit fired its standoff weapons, they'd no longer follow manually plotted courses and begin spinning in place. Now, it didn't make the game unplayable except for those like me who like to micro-manage and have built large scenarios...having to reissue orders to every unit after firing a standoff missile and replot courses...made my scenario, again, unplayable.
It seems we entered this phase of long working basic game functions being messed up with each new update (As I look back on my own posts in the tech forum) early last year at the start of the 'dark age' with update issues. 1.06 B1328.9 I see was when wingmen in aircraft groups began flying off and doing random things and would not obey manual plot orders. Again, it wasn't technically unplayable...but for micro-managed style of play in large scenarios it might as well have been. The same with a litany of things through last summers 'dark age' on updates: Planes RTB after firing primary weapon in spite of doctrine settings; Groups not changing throttle orders after plotted courses; a/c ignoring flight paths when 'engaged offensive' in spite of doctrine settings, etc.
The cumulative effect of these has been...waiting for the next update to get one basic set of bugs fixed (Which you all have always done well) only to see yet another one pop up.
I get that there will always be bugs. I know no game is perfect. I don't expect perfect. I don't even mind the Refueling issues, or CEC glitches we've had etc....as long as the basic manual orders of the game, things that always and need to work, continue to do so. The frustrations are, as Mike points out, those basic aspects of game play that always did work, popping up over and over with each new upgrade so often.
So that's what I meant by asking if it was possible to leave one stable build open (easy to download for those of us who are technically challenged) where the basic functions of the game are as bug free as possible to play, while also continuing with the fun new upgrades the game has always done so well.
Again, I LOVE this game. I've learned so much about modern warfare because of it (esp. how missiles actually work...and which caused so much strife). So I Don't want any of that to end, and I don't mind the subtle bugs as all that gets worked out. I just want to finally be able to play the thing through in my micro-managed style of play like I always used to be able to do, but haven't been able to do of late.
But thank you again for the response. I do think I need to bail on STEAM...too many times it has forced an update on me that I didn't want to happen. I'll consider that.
Does anyone have a suggestion for a build that is the least basic-bug-free for a micro-manage style of play: Post Tiny Update, until now? (And you want to walk me through how to get back to it as if you had to explain to a 5th grader? LOL).
I still love the developer team and appreciate all they hard work they do and I Still love the game. So much so, I desperately want to just...play it - all my old huge scenario's I built long ago. So, I hope I didn't stir the pot up too much or offend anyone with all this. Call it venting for the sake of catharsis! lol.
Thanks everyone.
Re: One Bug Free Version
I agree with Tred. CMO has been a bit of a bug whack-a-mole over the last couple of years. Fortunately I love the game so I tend to just plough through the less annoying ones. Unlike bigger developers I sense that Matrix just doesn't have the manpower to bugfix releases properly. Hopefully this doesn't turn off more casual people from playing this game, because I want it to remain active for many years to come.