Gallipoli

[coach3play4]

"Gallipoli" was on the tube tonight, and was worth a rewatch (I'm posting here because there is a gallipoli scenario for the Korsun system). As Mel Gibson's big movie - 1981, its a solid war movie, and clearly helps to understand Anzac bitter feelings toward the British.
The movie seems to be based on as real an incident as any war movie I've seen. The Brits did want to land 25,000 troops 4 months into the stalemated campaign, and did order the ANZAC to attack as a diversion. The movie shows a 3 wave attack, with the hero going down in the third wave, where mel Gibson was running back with orders to call off the attack. If I have it right, and maybe SSG can correct this, the actual attack was at "Nek" by the 3rd Light Horse". The movie claimed the attack was a bayonet charge in 3 waves. The history i read said the front was very narrow, thus explaining the small numbers in each wave. It confirmed the point in the movie that a bombardment stopped 7 minutes early, thus allowing the defenders to get back into the trenches. it also confirmed the fact that the attack was ordered continued in spite of the losses because of a report of a Australian flag at the Turkish trench. 400 of the 600 were killed, the only way to survive was to be wounded going over the trench, and falling back, if you made it out of the trench, you were gunned down.
Note that some of the other attacks that day did overrun Turkish trenches. However the attack was not needed, the British landed, and officers were drinking tea during the attack. Bitterness toward the British must have been high - clearly it looked like the Anzac force was a pawn for the British.
The Korsun scenario of course doesnt replicate all this - you can flank the Turkish positions!

[Fred98]

I have been there. The Neck is just that. A piece of land which narrows to about 20 meters wide with a steep cliff down both sides.

The movie was accurate.

[Rob Gjessing]

The Custom Gallipoli scenario - which I created based upon some old data - reflects the initial anzac landings at Gallipoli. Remember that the Gallipoli campaign did go for a while.. the movie that you talk about (an EXCELLENT MOVIE!) was recently on TV here in Australia again a few weeks back.. takes place a period of time after this KP scenario.. after a beach head had been established etc.

And yes it was a disaster.. of course us Aussies like to blame the UK.. and of course that blame is justified. In the KP scenario of Gallipoli I have tried to replicate the senseless slaughter of men in assaults which clearly where not going to achieve anything. Thats why in the scenario you really find it hard to get high enough odds conduct a successful assault and usually you find your self attacking at low odds in the hope that maybe you will be able to inflict losses also at the risk of causing losses to yourself.

And I dare you to try to outflank a human player I actually like this scenario for some reason.. its one of my favourite ones and Im always up for a PBEM game of this one..

[Richmond516]

Where can you find the Gallipoli scenario for KP? Does it simulate the Suvla landings or the April landings? Is it ANZAC only or the whole peninsula?

By the way, the Australian war histories say that its a myth that a British officer ordered the 3rd Light Horse Brigade to charge the Nek as depicted in the film - it was an Australian officer who ordered the charge and it wasn't necessarily to support the British at Suvla. I think it was Rupert Murdoch and Peter Weir's decision to show this 'myth' to encapsulate the attitude of the Australians to the British in this campaign. What it doesn't say is that the British took heavy perhaps heavier casualties than the Australian troops overall and their blood soaked landings at Lancashire Landing (6 VCs before Breakfast) and Helles (the River Clyde) attest to their courage. I think the British serviceman at Gallipoli would have felt as badly used as the Australians or the French for that matter (who were shunted off to 'sideshow' ops - sideshow of a sideshow!) Though there's an additional aspect in that the British treated the ANZACs, Indians, South Africans as 'colonials' somehow less 'civilized' than them. Take note also that there were many British officers (including the legendary Birdwood, I believe) who were superb leaders of Australian troops

Best regards,
Richmond

[Charles2222]

ORIGINAL: Rob Gjessing

The Custom Gallipoli scenario - which I created based upon some old data - reflects the initial anzac landings at Gallipoli. Remember that the Gallipoli campaign did go for a while.. the movie that you talk about (an EXCELLENT MOVIE!) was recently on TV here in Australia again a few weeks back.. takes place a period of time after this KP scenario.. after a beach head had been established etc.

And yes it was a disaster.. of course us Aussies like to blame the UK.. and of course that blame is justified. In the KP scenario of Gallipoli I have tried to replicate the senseless slaughter of men in assaults which clearly where not going to achieve anything. Thats why in the scenario you really find it hard to get high enough odds conduct a successful assault and usually you find your self attacking at low odds in the hope that maybe you will be able to inflict losses also at the risk of causing losses to yourself.

And I dare you to try to outflank a human player I actually like this scenario for some reason.. its one of my favourite ones and Im always up for a PBEM game of this one..

You saw The Light Horsemen did you not?

[Rob Gjessing]

The Gallipoli scenario - along with a heap of others can be found over at Run5.

Yes I did see The Light Horsemen. I had a had a H U G E crush in Sigred thorntein (my apologies to her for the spelling of her name as a kid.

[Charles2222]

I saw that when I was about 25. That may well be the best war movie I've ever seen. I suppose I'm partial because not only was I greatly surprised because I thought it was possibly a boring movie which I was just wasting time with, but because it was so different. For sure, it was probably the best use of what little romance there was, in a war movie, to support the entire movie. Really remarkable. When that German was about to throw that switch I complusively yelled, "Kill him" much to my astonishment (in the theatre). Even the scrolling at the end of the movie surprised me, which was comforting as well. The main character reminded me a lot of Luke Skywalker for some reason and it was easy to get attached to him. I love the bar scene where things didn't develope as you would've expected (no spoilers here). So many pleasant surprises and desperation with that movie.

BTW, I'm an American, and that film was played over here all but of maybe two weeks in VERY few locations. I would say most Americans, even wargamers, haven't heard of it. I had seen the movie only because there was nothing better out. My friend of the time agreed with me that if nothing else it was by far the best movie we had ever seen, that we expected was mediocre at best going in.

[Rob Gjessing]

Hehehe you always know its a good movie when you yell out in the theatre. One of the main actors in that movie was involved in a very very bad accident just after the movie was a wrap. He sufferred very bad head injuries, entered into a coma and ended up disabled. I think he is still alive but needs constant care. He was one of Australia most promising actors.. arhh.. just checking on imdb it says this, his name was Jon Blake:

"Was driving home on 1st December 1986 after final day's filming of Lighthorsemen, The (1987) when his car struck a car parked on the wrong side of the road with its lights turned off. He sustained severe injuries, and will exist in a near-vegetative state until his death."

[elmo3]

Rob

Did you use Moorhead's book on Gallipoli in making your scenario. I have it but haven't read it yet. Thanks.

elmo3

[Rob Gjessing]

No to tell you the truth.. and I think I credited as such in the readme file, the Gallipoli scenario is based upon a very very very old SSG scenario of the same name for their original engine "Battlefront" on the C64 way back in the 80's. I made some design decision to make the scenario 'fit' into KP.. but pretty much I didnt do any research at all myself..

[elmo3]

Ok, thanks. Haven't played your scenario yet but will so I have an excuse to read the book too. [;)]

[Richmond516]

Your Gallipoli scenario looks wonderful! Though I'm guessing its mainly focused on the Anzac Landings? Hopefully some bright fellow comes up with one for HTTR I'm doing the initial research already Does it have a Turkish OOB?

Best regards!
Tom Richmond