Level Bombers and Torps!

[Titanwarrior89]

Playing against Jap AI. He came in with 45 bettys at 13 to 15,000 feet. And 3 to 6 bombers at 5,000 feet. My battleship the NC took 6 torpedo hits. Is this possible? If so, why do they show 200feet sometimes. I have patch version 1.21 .[:'(]

[SunDevil_MatrixForum]

Because planes drop torpedos at 200 feet. Whatever height they come in at, they drop down taking flak and then drop their torpedos at the default 200 feet. This is better explained in the manual, in the air plane section.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: SunDevil

Because planes drop torpedos at 200 feet. Whatever height they come in at, they drop down taking flak and then drop their torpedos at the default 200 feet. This is better explained in the manual, in the air plane section.

Exactly... When planes use torpedoes the altitude you set is for the trip to and from the target. They all drop to 200 feet to launch torps. Dive Bombers will drop to 2000 feet I believe to drop their loads as well.. Every other bomber using bombs will drop from whatever altitude you select - reason B-17s are not very good early in the war as most people fly them too high to be effective.

Xargun

[Mr.Frag]

Add tactical bombers to the 2000 foot drop height ... they glide bomb.

[Xargun]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Add tactical bombers to the 2000 foot drop height ... they glide bomb.

Is that more efficient ?

Xargun

[Titanwarrior89]

Thanks for the repley guys. I understand what your saying. In the case above the AI (bettys) came in at 5 to 18k and some of them dropped torpedo's. But in some battles before for this one bettys showed (AI) 200ft for torpedo drop. Just wondering why the difference. Also with the bettys at 5 to 18k, in the case above the sound effects was bombs dropping. I am a little confused! Your help is greatly needed![:D]

[Titanwarrior89]

I don't doubt what you guys say. But why does some of my combat reports show torps dropped at 5k. while sometimes it'll show 200ft. In all cases it bettys(AI) (1.21) Why doesn't the report say 200ft. , no matter what the altitude was getting to their target. If there dropping torps. Some of my reports says bettys dropped torps at 5k and some will show 200ft. I guess what I am really asking is why does the combat report show didn't heights for dropping torps, while some of those reports will show 200ft. some at 5k. That has me confused.[:D]

[SunDevil_MatrixForum]

No torps were dropped at 5000ft, those were your bombers, all torps get dropped at 200ft. If you think I am wrong please post a combat report showing otherwise. Thanks

[DoomedMantis]

There was probably a mixture of bombers with some dropping bombs (showing 5k feet etc) and the ones dropping torps at 200ft. If you have a repeatable save of bombers dropping torps from 5k then send me a copy and I will look at it.

[Sonny]

If your Bettys are flying at extended range or from an airbase smaller than size 4 they will use bombs and drop them from whatever height they are set to fly at. (Or if they are attacking a land target they will use bombs and drop them from the height of their flight.)

[Titanwarrior89]

Thanks for your help guys. I'll look for it again, if it happens. Forgot and didn't save my combat report. The report show about 45 bettys- lowest altitude was 5k and the highest was 18k. None in the report showed 200ft, but took six torps into the BB NC. patch ver. 1.21 new game sce 42b(i think) 4 aug 42 to Mar 31 46.[:)]

[Caltone]

Can you imagine dropping a torpedo from 18,000 feet? I'm betting that one would run a little deep [:D]

[Hard Sarge]

I don't think Betties are working right, I think they are dropping Trops from high alt

I get my reports of them flying at 10-12-14 K, when they drop

when a number of Betties drop, I get the bomb drop sound and multi spashes as if bombs are hitting the water around the ship

but when they do get a hit, it is reported as a Trop hit

what makes me wonder, is the Betties are pretty poor in this verison of the game now

I mean, 75 Betties attack a convoy of AK's with 2 MSW for protection, and get 75 misses (2nd attack in the day, 68 came over and got 1 hit, a Trop)

HARD_Sarge

also, I notice the TBF's fly in at a reported 5000 ft, not 200 or 100, but what they fly to target at, but the SBD's which are flying at 15000, are reported to be coming in at 2000

if I remember when I get into my turn today, I will switch some TBF's to a dfferent alt and see what the report says

[Hard Sarge]

well this is a standard report

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA Kako, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger bombing at 5000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 5000 feet

the SBD's were coming in at 15000, on the way to target, the TBF's were coming in at 5000

(yesterdays last turn report)

HARD_Sarge

[DoomedMantis]

Have you got the before save from that turn?

If so can you send it to me with step by step instructions and I will have a look at it. I will also need to know if it was a game started in a previous version and what version you are on

cheers

DM

paul.harrison50@bigpond.com

[Hard Sarge]

I still think TB are broken, they bomb as if they are level bombers

Day Air attack on TF at 60,88


Allied aircraft
TBF Avenger x 6


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x TBF Avenger bombing at 15000 feet
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Day Air attack on TF at 59,86


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 8
SBD Dauntless x 40
TBF Avenger x 13


Japanese Ships
CL Natori
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 6, on fire
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,86


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 13
SBD Dauntless x 30
TBF Avenger x 7



Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 5, on fire
BB Mutsu, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
1 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,86


Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 22
TBF Avenger x 15


Japanese Ships
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Mutsu, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Day Air attack on TF, near Sag Sag at 57,88

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
G4M1 Betty x 11

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 10


Allied Ships
BB Tennessee
BB Colorado, Torpedo hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet

THESE ARE FROM TRUK, THEY ALWAYS COME IN LOW
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Day Air attack on TF, near Lae at 54,87


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 19
SBD Dauntless x 39
TBF Avenger x 18
P-40E Warhawk x 29


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Bomb hits 6, on fire
DD Tomozuru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Hiei, Bomb hits 4
CL Kiso

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 3000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 7000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet
5 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 15000 feet
4 x TBF Avenger bombing at 10000 feet

HASSLE is not many Trop hits, but I did land some, not long range missions, I had even cut down max range

from the Alts it is showing the TBF's comeing in as if Level Bombers

the SBD's are all at 15 K, bomb at 2000, the TBF's are 3-7-10 and 15 K

any hits with Bombs came from the SBD's, no TFB's show any bomb hits, just a whole lot of misses

verison 1.20 started then patched to 1.21 but not restarted
Scen 14, the Aug 42 to 46 campaign

HARD_Sarge

[Mr.Frag]

BB Nagato, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Sarge, assuming you are running against the AI, toggle the FoW setting and re-run the turn. I'll be that reported torp hit is FoW, not real.

What is the exact range between the two groups?

[Sonny]

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

I don't think Betties are working right, I think they are dropping Trops from high alt

I get my reports of them flying at 10-12-14 K, when they drop

when a number of Betties drop, I get the bomb drop sound and multi spashes as if bombs are hitting the water around the ship

but when they do get a hit, it is reported as a Trop hit

what makes me wonder, is the Betties are pretty poor in this verison of the game now

I mean, 75 Betties attack a convoy of AK's with 2 MSW for protection, and get 75 misses (2nd attack in the day, 68 came over and got 1 hit, a Trop)

HARD_Sarge

also, I notice the TBF's fly in at a reported 5000 ft, not 200 or 100, but what they fly to target at, but the SBD's which are flying at 15000, are reported to be coming in at 2000

if I remember when I get into my turn today, I will switch some TBF's to a dfferent alt and see what the report says

I noticed that many of my Bettys only get one or two torp hits with a total of 32 aircraft attacking. Have not looked at the experience etc. so that may be a factor. Also didn't notice any bomb splashes but maybe after staring at the screen for hours I don't notice when something is not quite as depicted in the combat replay.

[Mr.Frag]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Add tactical bombers to the 2000 foot drop height ... they glide bomb.

Is that more efficient ?

Xargun

Nope, thats simply what they report the drop at altitude, just like DB's

Torp = 200
DB = 2000
Glide Bomb = 2000
Others = real altitude of release

If it is not reporting 200, then no torpedoes were dropped although FoW might step in here and say otherwise.

[Hard Sarge]

Okay I will give it a go with FOW off

must attacks were 2 hex range, some 3
(AI had stacked a lot of BB's at Lea, I changed in, hit them and then broke and ran)

but for FOW, I don't think so, at least from the betty attacks on me that I have seen, I am getting a lot of 15 K raids, and getting hit with Trops

HARD_Sarge

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