My newbie topic

[nukkxx5058]

Hi, I just bought the game today and just tried the Tutorial 1.

My first impressions/questions are here:

a- I love the map and multiple zoom levels. The map is too cute )))

b- I like the way waypoint are drawned, in fact the way "troops passes" are drawn ...

c- Game sounds are not so good. I would appreciate music but mainly more "military noises" like boots noise of troops in woods, wind sound in the forest, (birds ?? lol ) etc.

d- interface is great ! very intuitive.

e- Game concept is fantastic ! it's a bit like "close combat" but at operational level !! The "chain of command" system is fantastic.

f- there is an information window listing all equipement for each unit ! e.g. : 2 bazooka, 1 jeep, 14 M42 etc. )))) I love it !

g- Bug (or AI flaw ?) in tutorial 1: AI germans receive reinforcement in south east quadran. But those troops are stoic! like if they were frozen. They are uselessfor german.

h- there are messages which appear in green in the top of main window saying that unit ABC or unit XYZ did this or that. I would like this message to be clickable and when clicked, the unit ABC or XYZ being highlited and map centered on.

i- No FOW ! (unless i missed something) instead there is a very realistic system of spotting with a given level of information reliability (low, medium, high) according to intellingence info. That's much more realistic than FOW at operational level! Flash point germany should use a similar system in my opinion ...

j- Easy learnig curve !!!!!!!!!! that's a game designed for me ! but in-deth strategy.



Well, I repeat I jut played ONCE tutorial 1 so I maybe missed some points
Thx for your inputs guys !

[wodin]

Hello,

I played both tutorials and loved the game. However since then I only played one scenario "Joes Bridge". The reason being is that I found the tutorial excellent and made the whole experience enjoyable but when it came to doing a scenario with no walkthrough I was really lost. With it being realtime aswell I feel to underpressure as the time ticks and really find I have no idea what todo with my units. I loved CC as I can understand the scale and find tactics at that level really commonsense. However when it comes to bigger scales I get confused. Though when its more structured like a turn based game I find it far easier and I know I can sit and really think (I know you can pause but its pressing that start button when I decide what todo. I also play it with with the order delay as thats how the game is supposed to be played so no changing your mind).

What I'd find usefull is more in depth reports from your sub ordinates. If they think they should retreat or if they are losing troops fast. If the situ is stable or not etc etc.

Also combat reprots from each unit about losses etc that could come through at a set time i.e every hour. You could pause the game and evaluate the situation going by losses and who reports situation untenable etc etc.

Still a fantastic system and even though Ive hardly played it it is a game I will go back to one day. I may even buy more of the series as it expands and maybe the things I'd like to dsee get implimented.

[MadScot]

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

i- No FOW ! (unless i missed something) instead there is a very realistic system of spotting with a given level of information reliability (low, medium, high) according to intellingence info. That's much more realistic than FOW at operational level! Flash point germany should use a similar system in my opinion ...

Oh, there's plenty of Fog of War! If you click "i" you'll find the enemy unit reports rotate through three settings - "all reports", "recenbt reports" and "current reports" IIRC. There's an notation in the bottom RH map corner to say which. Anything other than "current" isn't real any more - just because you think you saw a panzer platoon 12 hours ago doesn't mean it's still there (in fact it's almost certainly not any more) and, as you've noticed, there's no guarantee it ever WAS a panzer platoon. You'll see enemy units change their designation and types as you respot them - as panzers become armoured cars, say. And if you actually make contact with the enemy you'll find actual unit designations, as your troops capture prisoners, take IDs from bodies or equipment, etc.

Unless you just meant there's no arbitrary fog of war - which is certainly true.

[MadScot]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Hello,

I played both tutorials and loved the game. However since then I only played one scenario "Joes Bridge". The reason being is that I found the tutorial excellent and made the whole experience enjoyable but when it came to doing a scenario with no walkthrough I was really lost. With it being realtime aswell I feel to underpressure as the time ticks and really find I have no idea what todo with my units. I loved CC as I can understand the scale and find tactics at that level really commonsense. However when it comes to bigger scales I get confused. Though when its more structured like a turn based game I find it far easier and I know I can sit and really think (I know you can pause but its pressing that start button when I decide what todo. I also play it with with the order delay as thats how the game is supposed to be played so no changing your mind).
Still a fantastic system and even though Ive hardly played it it is a game I will go back to one day. I may even buy more of the series as it expands and maybe the things I'd like to dsee get implimented.

Turn off orders delay. Seriously. You'll learn the mechanics of the game much faster with it off. Playing with it on the first time is like sending green troops straight into the front line. It's much easier to understand the impact of your orders if you turn it off the first few times.

Another trick to learning - sit back and let the Ai fight your battles too. For example, in Joe's Bridge, don't try to order companies around. Just order the two battalions to take and hold the bridge (attack orders with secure crossing enabled) and let them get on with it, and what what happens. Once you see how the Ai mounts a battalion attack, you'll get the idea of how you can do it yourself if you want to. Realistically, in the larger scenarios you'll be trusting the Ai as a battalion commander anyway - a corps commander doesn't have the luxury of controlling companies - so you may as well start that way.

And don't be afraid to pause it. If playing it as pseudo-turn based makes it easier or more fun, go for it. I generally pause the game for a 'commanders conference' a couple of times a day at least, and try to plan for the next 12 hours or so. If the grossly unexpected happens I'll stop too, otherwise I'll let it flow for a while, then pause for the next round of commands. There's no right way to play - you paid your $$$, play it how you like.

[Rooster]

c- Game sounds are not so good. I would appreciate music but mainly more "military noises" like boots noise of troops in woods, wind sound in the forest, (birds ?? lol ) etc.

You might want to check out Tactics's sound mod here:

http://aahq.blogspot.com/2004_10_12_aahq_archive.html

Glad you like the game and welcome!

[Arjuna]

wodin,

ORIGINAL: MadScot

Turn off orders delay. Seriously. You'll learn the mechanics of the game much faster with it off. Playing with it on the first time is like sending green troops straight into the front line. It's much easier to understand the impact of your orders if you turn it off the first few times.

Another trick to learning - sit back and let the Ai fight your battles too. For example, in Joe's Bridge, don't try to order companies around. Just order the two battalions to take and hold the bridge (attack orders with secure crossing enabled) and let them get on with it, and what what happens. Once you see how the Ai mounts a battalion attack, you'll get the idea of how you can do it yourself if you want to. Realistically, in the larger scenarios you'll be trusting the Ai as a battalion commander anyway - a corps commander doesn't have the luxury of controlling companies - so you may as well start that way.

And don't be afraid to pause it. If playing it as pseudo-turn based makes it easier or more fun, go for it. I generally pause the game for a 'commanders conference' a couple of times a day at least, and try to plan for the next 12 hours or so. If the grossly unexpected happens I'll stop too, otherwise I'll let it flow for a while, then pause for the next round of commands. There's no right way to play - you paid your $$$, play it how you like.

Here, here! Concur 100%. Good luck and please ask for help/advice/suggestions if you get stuck. Everyone here is helpful. [:)]

[Arjuna]

nukkxx,

Welcome to the HTTR community.

ORIGINAL: nukkxx

Hi, I just bought the game today and just tried the Tutorial 1.

My first impressions/questions are here:

a- I love the map and multiple zoom levels. The map is too cute )))

b- I like the way waypoint are drawned, in fact the way "troops passes" are drawn ...

c- Game sounds are not so good. I would appreciate music but mainly more "military noises" like boots noise of troops in woods, wind sound in the forest, (birds ?? lol ) etc.

d- interface is great ! very intuitive.

e- Game concept is fantastic ! it's a bit like "close combat" but at operational level !! The "chain of command" system is fantastic.

f- there is an information window listing all equipement for each unit ! e.g. : 2 bazooka, 1 jeep, 14 M42 etc. )))) I love it !

Glad you like it.

g- Bug (or AI flaw ?) in tutorial 1: AI germans receive reinforcement in south east quadran. But those troops are stoic! like if they were frozen. They are uselessfor german.

Actually don't presume that because an enemy intel report stays around that the real enemy un it is still there.

h- there are messages which appear in green in the top of main window saying that unit ABC or unit XYZ did this or that. I would like this message to be clickable and when clicked, the unit ABC or XYZ being highlited and map centered on.

See pages58/59 of the manual for ow to select message and select sender of message.

i- No FOW ! (unless i missed something) instead there is a very realistic system of spotting with a given level of information reliability (low, medium, high) according to intellingence info. That's much more realistic than FOW at operational level! Flash point germany should use a similar system in my opinion ...

Actually there is. As MadScot explained, there is a difference between the intel report ( enemy unit icon ) you see on the map and the real enemy units - see page 20 of the manual.

I recommend you check out Markshot's "HTTR Mini-Guide" - there are two sticky threads at the top.

All the best and enjoy.[:)]

[kcflyer]

What level of delay to you expirenced players recommend ? I played Joe's Bridge yesterday as the Germans at the first level of command delay. Should I up that ?

[EricGuitarJames]

ORIGINAL: kcflyer

What level of delay to you expirenced players recommend ? I played Joe's Bridge yesterday as the Germans at the first level of command delay. Should I up that ?

It really depends on what you're after. The most 'real' selection is 'Painfully Realistic' (although it's not as 'real' as some would like) and that's the one I use. But if you choose to use this then you have to be comfortable issuing most of your orders at regimental/brigade level, micro-managing as little as possible. Try all the settings out and stick with the one that suits you[:)]

[nukkxx5058]

In my initial post, I said:

j- Easy learnig curve !!!!!!!!!! that's a game designed for me ! but in-deth strategy.

Well, I have to temperate this first comment ! If the game is easy to start with, it's not as easy as I initially suspected and game concepts are numerous and sophisticated. I think it will take some time to master the game ...

[wodin]

Just reinstalled HTTR and played well I actaully watched my SS regiment advance to attack then destroy a bridge.

Even when watching though again I can see a great game there I just cant get into it.

I was watching and it dawned on me what it is I feel is lacking.

Again it comes down to reports. I find it difficult to really judge how a particular unit/units is/are doing and how badly off the unit is since the begining of the scenario. The equip tab is excellent but its a shame it doesnt show how many you started out with aswell as the current equip.

I'd like more detailed feedback from each unit. Again a sort of combat report every hour. Quite detailed saying what each unit has lost equip wise. How critical the situ is for each unit. How far percenatge wise is the drop in moral. I big want is to know how well a combat unit has done so far i.e. What equip has it destroyed and roughly how many casualties its caused, whther the performance is above or below what is expected of the unit etc etc.

All of this would help me in really getting into the game and make it easier to assimilate how things are going in the battle.

At the moment I just feel I cant see how a unit is performing. Maybe in the end Im just an impatient bu##er and not really taking the time to analyse each unit as the game progresses.

[nukkxx5058]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Just reinstalled HTTR and played well I actaully watched my SS regiment advance to attack then destroy a bridge.

Even when watching though again I can see a great game there I just cant get into it.

I was watching and it dawned on me what it is I feel is lacking.

Again it comes down to reports. I find it difficult to really judge how a particular unit/units is/are doing and how badly off the unit is since the begining of the scenario. The equip tab is excellent but its a shame it doesnt show how many you started out with aswell as the current equip.

I'd like more detailed feedback from each unit. Again a sort of combat report every hour. Quite detailed saying what each unit has lost equip wise. How critical the situ is for each unit. How far percenatge wise is the drop in moral. I big want is to know how well a combat unit has done so far i.e. What equip has it destroyed and roughly how many casualties its caused, whther the performance is above or below what is expected of the unit etc etc.

All of this would help me in really getting into the game and make it easier to assimilate how things are going in the battle.

At the moment I just feel I cant see how a unit is performing. Maybe in the end Im just an impatient bu##er and not really taking the time to analyse each unit as the game progresses.

Only good remarks here !
I'm a 100% beginner but I feel something similar. I don't know how to exploit infromation ...

[wodin]

Exactly what Im getting at. I want more feedback from my subordinates.

[EricGuitarJames]

It's a 'feel' thing guys. HTTR is a Corps level command simulator and to get the best out of it you have to play it that way. Watch your battalions manoeuvre into position to attack and then see how each company behaves. Then reassess and replan. To a certain degree you have to focus on the bigger picture and not worry too much about the losses suffered by every company in every attack. To me it's the beauty of the game just being able to issue orders and then sit and watch the battle develop for 10-15 minutes. With a bit of imagination you can become Horrocks or Bittrich or (God forbid[:D]) Browning.

I do understand about not getting a sense of involvement though. I have 'Uncommon Valour' and no matter how I try to play it, it just doesn't do it for me. I hope you will get into it though[:)]

[Arjuna]

wodin,

On the Stats Tab of the force data display on the Side Bar you will see a set of percentage bars, one of which is for equipment levels. This displays a lighter bar over a darker one. These correspond to the current and at-start levels. We chose not to store at-start details of every peice of equipment for all the units as that would just add more of a data load and increase the size of Saved Games. It's something we could consider if there was enough demand for it.

As to the hourly SITREPS ( situation reports ) we originally had these but found no one was interested in them. Part of the problem here is that the Player gets inundated with 300 plus reports to read every hour of Game time, most of which are "uneventfull". It's information overload and the old eyes glaze over and soon you don't even bother to read them. What would be good if you could somehow cull out all the "uneventfulls". But this is not as easy as you think, especially as what one Player wants to focus on is different to that of another Player.

This same problem confronts real life commanders too. The good ones do not spend their days reading endless SITREPS. When they develop their plan they identify those key areas or tasks critical to the success of their misssion. They note the forces committed to these key areas or tasks and these are the ones they focus on. IRL the commander will often visit these forces during the day so he can get a first hand view of how they are fairing. If things need adjusting or he needs to comkmit his reserve he then reassesses and takes action.

So mirror this behaviour and focus on the key forces/tasks/areas. Take the time at start to get an overview of their status. Don't be worried too much about particular items of equipment, focus on the force's persQty, firepower, morale, fatigue and cohesion. Cohesion comes and goes pretty quickly, but it can be a good indicator of when to call of an attack. Fatigue will degrade over time and is a key indicator of when to call a halt. Morale is essential for forces at the sharp end. Once this goes no amount of equipment is going to make them stand and fight. All of these key values are on the Stats tab and their levels displayed in the Unit Info Box on the unit icons ( save for firepower but you can use the Info Boxe's Combat power for this instead ).

Part of your problem I think is due to the way you look at the battle. Now I could be totally barking up the wrong tree here. So please excuse me if I am. But what I have found with many wargamers used to micromanaging is that they have difficulties adjusting to the "real life" paradime modelled in HTTR. In other more traditional wargames you have an unrealistic degree of control over minutae which a real life commander would never have the time nor need to deal with. This encourages micromanagement. In fact these systems demand micromanagement because they do not have the AI powerful enough to manage subordinates.

With HTTR you have an AI powerful enough to to a reasonable job of managing your subordinates. Now sure it will cock up occassionally. But show me a RL general who did not have subordinates who cocked up.[:)] In the main though you can trust the AI to manage your Battalions and Brigades. So take advantage of that and shift your awareness and focus up a level. As a Corps commander focus on Bdes and the key arty and support assets, then you'll have about 20 units to worry about. Any more than this and it becomes too daunting, too much data to try and assimilate and respond to.

Anyway, if I have missed the mark here, please ignore it. I am just tring to help you get the most out of the game. All the best,

In RL a commander does have subordinates who they must rely on to carry out their orders.

[W Thorne_MatrixForum]

But what I have found with many wargamers used to micromanaging is that they have difficulties adjusting to the "real life" paradime modelled in HTTR. In other more traditional wargames you have an unrealistic degree of control over minutae which a real life commander would never have the time nor need to deal with. This encourages micromanagement. In fact these systems demand micromanagement because they do not have the AI powerful enough to manage subordinates.

Dave I don't think you know how right you are. I played a lot of smaller squad/company size games. Those games could be adjusted on the fly if things went wrong. HTTR makes you look at the bigger picture and plan out your strategy then work your plan. Stepping in and micromanaging battalions and regiments only gets you in more trouble. However, the game is not so big that it is uncontrolable. IMO the AA games are the best Division/Corps games on the market.

[wodin]

Eric, Arjuna,

Your both right. I will keep trying. I will step up alevel aswell. The last sceanrio was just a one regiment one so I sat back and wathed it happen. I still tinkered though. I just found watching ti I needed more feedback as the game went along. Still I suppose once you master the info settings etc you can quickly view how things are going. The only way I could tell if a unit was doind badly whe wathcing was when I got a message at the top of the screen. I need to master the info settings.

[Arjuna]

wodin,

One of the thin gs we're experimenting with right now for COTA is having multiple filters on the function keys. This enables us to group like filter types, such as morale, fatigue and cohesion on the one key. The Player can then cycle through these by hitting the same F Key. Works a treat. [:)]

I would suggest you try one of the sliughtly larger sized scenarios such as Airlanding Assault and just give orders to the battalions. Watch and get used to how the AI implements your orders. You'll then get a feel for it and can move up to an even larger scenario where you can issue orders at the Bde level.

Good luck.

[wodin]

OK will do. Say for instance a brigade is doing poorly how is ths resolved without having to star micromanging the units?[&:]

[Arjuna]

Well that depend on the situation. But say you are attacking and things aren't going too well. Your options are to commit additional forces to try and relieve or unhinge the enemy - eg commit a Bn to a supporting flank attack. Of course this requires a reserve and that is one of the key things that you must do as an operational commander - you must maintain a reserve. If you commit it create another by shortening your line or giving up some minor objective. Sometimes you have to commit everything but this should only be where your are very confident that the enemy is also fully committed or very desparate.[;)]

Another option would be to use up some more of your precious arty ammo to try and break through. Another could be to call off the attack, go over to the defencive, preferably pulling out some of your attacking force so they can rest and then try launching another attack using a different approach route.

Be imaginative. One of the beauties of HTTR is that you can experiment and no one really gets hurt.