Power of Mother Russia

[Davidovich Trotsky]

I was playing as the soviets during this game, when it came to 1941 and the germans did the usual attack, they took 2 states, but when it came to my turn, I successfuly pushed them back and the germans went on the run.

I seen games when I was another country and Russian falling easy prey to germany at the beginning but while I was the russians, it seemed the opposite.

I doubt it's superior tactics, but has anyone else noticed this?

[JanSorensen]

Alot depends on the Germans conduction their attack with high precision. If their placement, tech, movement etc isnt very focussed it can bog down really fast.

[Harrybanana]

I know Oleg may disagree with me, but IMHO Russia is far stronger in this game then it was historically. So long as it techs up it's tanks and infantry and builds some AA to counter the German air a conventional German attack will stall very quickly. In other words, if the German player simply launches the "historical" attack on Russia against an experienced opponent he is very unlikely to come anywhere near achieving the "historical" success of the real Germans. Is there anyone out there who disagrees with me?

However, it is rarely in my games that I see the Germans launch the "historical" attack. It seems that the preference is to gang up on Russia with both Germany and Japan, or do a 1st attack turn paradrop into the Caucus with massive air support, or both. Alone or together these tactics can really set Russia reeling. Even with it's ahistorical (in my opinion) strength Russia will be hard pressed to survive. Of course, if "Fuel" is turned on this will help; indeed if "Fuel" is not turned on Russia is probably doomed.

This all creates quite a problem for me as I generally prefer a game to be as historical as possible. In my opinion, this would require that Russian strength be downgraded somewhat. However if Russian strength is downgraded the Axis would be able to win almost all games between equally skilled opponents by simply double teaming Russia and/or capturing the Caucus on the 1st turn of attack. This would of course ruin play balance.

[a511]

imo, if ger leaves rus alone ... ger will be crushed by the "over powered" rus from Sp43 onwards. theres little the ger can do with the hordes of rus units from the east ...

so under the new AV requirements of 70PP and either London or Moscow, unless ger can win in Wi43, its all down hill for the axis from Sp43.

i know its diff to strive the balance, but i just think rus is too strong, esp if its left alone till Wi43.

AN

[JanSorensen]

I agree that if left alone Russia is very strong. I dont agree that if attacked properly Russia is too strong. I find that often the only way the Allies can hope to save Russia is by some smart English invading and that anything less will lead to Russia crumbling. Ofcourse that may be why others find Russia too strong - because they garrison the west heavily enough to deter those invasions when playing Germany rather than allow some English ashore while pushing hard in Russia.

[Uncle_Joe]

And I think if the WAllies lose some Amphib capability, then Russia might look a little less daunting as well. Of course by mid '41, I'm assuming the WAllies will have their invasion capability intact, but they still had to make a sacrifice somewhere....

[redhotheydrich]

in 1941 russia should,biuld all remaining factory points. and build supplies.for two turns in 41.and nothing else.summer and winter turns to pe precise.

[aletoledo]

when russia is left to 1943, I've never ever seen a game that was even close.

I'm currently playing a game as allies, where the other guy did a very successful sealion, completely crushing everything in the production pool of england, which included 7 fighters, 4 BB ships and at least 5 transports. yet it took him till mid 1942 to accomplish and by then I had 20 9/10 russian tanks, backed by 40 artillery. needless to say, it is a 1944 loss for the axis, despite having england.

as jan mentioned though, a lot of times when I'm playing axis the only thing that saves russia is a well timed WA invasion someplace. also like he's said with a minimal garrison guarding against the west, the russians are hard pressed to stop the germans from destroying everything by the time they can pull together a defense. once that invasion happens though, its hard to stop the WA from consolidating a beachhead before troops can be diverted from russia. I've had sure AVs only a turn or two away lost due to an invasion of southern france.

[redhotheydrich]

russia is so powerful in this game especially in 1944.where i have 200 militia and 300 in fantry.thats 500 divs total.

[Davidovich Trotsky]

I been playing more with the other sides, and I have to say, WA is very overpowered. (When I am not controlling it! I am bad with the navy side)

I was Axis, I basically conquerored Russia single handly except for a 50 strong army frozen in seberia (they had no supplies!), china was down to 1 state with 20 infantry and one plane, i basically owned all of africa then something strange happened.

Allies basically dropped into paris with a 40 strong army, I luckly had 56 tanks and some other stuff that were stationed then and prompty got rid of the threat, which brought me down to around 20 in the region.

Then they dropped into rome with 40 army again, I moved in for the kill and sorted it out, basically no army left in the west, suddenly, the allies attack paris again, but with this time, with 67 army (Yes, I know these are lots of armies, i was suprised too) so I had to pull all my garrisons etc that prevented uprisings to combat, and after a few turns, i finally did, and had about 20 army left and lots of partisans attacking resources and the likes.

Suddenly 40 attacked Rome (Again) managed to pull through and defend, but now any more attacks I am screwed....

Then 87 armies storm Paris... luckly my factories produced some defence and I lined them up. WA proceeded in claiming spain, whole of france and the lines and I was holding them off at Western Germany.

I managed to smash the army down to 23 with my attacks and brought 20 army from my eastern font to back me up, then the allies out of no where suddenly restocked their army back to 60 and took western germany, I was left in Berlin, everything where, resources in the minus, the allies got their army to around 160 and stormed in making me surrender and took over berllin (and russia was laughing because he got all his land back) then WA headed to japan and whooped their butts even faster.

Now that's called overpowered..


(This was during Impossible mode btw)

[redhotheydrich]

Germany cant attack russia.especially if cailey cox is incharge in 43.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: aletoledo
as jan mentioned though, a lot of times when I'm playing axis the only thing that saves russia is a well timed WA invasion someplace. also like he's said with a minimal garrison guarding against the west, the russians are hard pressed to stop the germans from destroying everything by the time they can pull together a defense.

Yes, but aletoledo, have you managed to achieve this success against a competent Russian Opponent without either :a) double teaming Russia with Japan or ,b) taking and destroying the Caucus resources on the 1st turn of attack. Actually, forget "b)"; do you think it is possible (assuming competent players on both sides) for the Germans to conquer Russia alone? I'm not saying it is impossible, I'm just saying it is very, very difficult.

[aletoledo]

IMO alone its virtually impossible for the germans to conquer ALL of russia (equal players). its very hard to reach the urals without the japanese help.

so I agree with you in that the russians are definitly better than historical. take history out of the equation and have the japanese attack and russia can be beaten.

[redhotheydrich]

germany cannot attack russia in 1943 if Cailey cox is in charge.

[Lebatron]

I agree Harry, Russia is too tough a nut to crack without the double team sqeeze or the Caucasus paradrop. And BTW did you know the Caucasus paradrop will soon be patched out. If you read my lastest readme on Franco's Alliance you'll get the scoop and see pics of the new map. Anyway with that option gone(I never used it anyway), it will become even harder to crack Russia don't you think?

Some have taked about the futility of fighting Russia if they waited until 43. I totaly agree the Russians have to much production. The problem is the factory production multiplier. Right now its x2 in 1940. I'm OK with that. Then its x3 in 1942. Thats were I disagree, I think it should stay at x2 until war is declared. Stalin pressed hard in the late 30's to move from a x1 to x2 in game speak. With that milestone being achieved, I think the country would have stabilized at x2 for several years had it not been for the patriotic zeal to save the country after Hitler betrayed them. Hence the x3 then makes sense, but not before.

Well 2by3 is planning on doing something about WA's transport capacity, so maybe Germany will be able to put more forces into Russia, because they won't have to worry as much about their western flank until Fall 43 and later. This may be enough to make it a 50/50 fight between Germany and Russia.

[Harrybanana]

At the risk of hijacking this thread I must say I am concerned about exactly what the developers are planning to do to "fix" the WA invasion capacity. I generally play the Allies and concede that the Russians are too strong. I further concede that the WA invasion capacity in the early game is too high. BUT as a whole the WA prior to US involvement is too weak. The Germans start with a significant edge in fighter tech even though historically the British fighters in 1940 were roughly equal to the German and had the radar edge as well (at least over England). As well the UK/Canadian available pop is too low. Germany, US, and Russia each get 1 pop for every 8 to 8.4 million 1940 citizens while for UK/Canada it is only 1 pop per 10 million. Too be fair UK/Canada should have 7.5 pop and they only have a combined 6.

With the new rules coming in, to win an AV Victory (which I believe most Axis players will be shooting for) the Axis will need to capture either Moscow or London. Already I think the Axis have a better chance for London than Moscow. If the rules are changed to cripple the WA by removing some trannies (which they need to keep the lifeline to England open as well as for invasion) and make it more difficult to attack Russia (by removing the Caucus paradrop) then I think we will see the "english gambit" become the option of choice for the Axis.

I guess what I'm saying is that if the Developers do remove some WA Trannies in a coming patch, I hope they compensate by either adding a pop to England, Scotland, or Canada, or increase the WA starting fighter tech, or both.

[a511]

Then its x3 in 1942. Thats were I disagree, I think it should stay at x2 until war is declared.

i agree that the x3 in 42 irrespective of barbarossa is the main problem and i agree with Lebatron's suggestion.

If the rules are changed to cripple the WA by removing some trannies (which they need to keep the lifeline to England open as well as for invasion) and make it more difficult to attack Russia (by removing the Caucus paradrop) then I think we will see the "english gambit" become the option of choice for the Axis.

hard to say so as we dont know what exactly the changes will be in this issue in the coming patch, but with the change in trannies and italy surrender requirements, i think Ger can deploy additional forces to RUS and grab Moscow plus the extra RPs in Caucus region ... that could be sufficient incentive for the Ger to go for barbarossa.
besides removing some trannies will not directly make England an easy target.

whats in my mind is whether the combine effect of Lebatron's "x2 until DOW" plus the removal of some trannies will make it too easy for the Ger ...

in any event, i think 2by3 should seriously consider US's immediate DOW on Axis should London or Moscow fall.

AN

[redhotheydrich]

Cailey cox dowed turkey and russia but especally mother russia.

[lkendter]

ORIGINAL: redhotheydrich

Cailey cox dowed turkey and russia but especally mother russia.

This is thread SPAMing. Please knock this off. The 3 Cailey cox comments had nothing to do with the subject at hand.

[redhotheydrich]

it has do with player called cailey cox.playing WAW.shes playing mother russia.so it has to do with the subject.