Matrix Games Forums

SuluSea wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:04 pm

Arkham wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 1:41 pm They work, but not setting arcs is more efficient and gets you better results.

I think most of us are micro-managers at heart that's why we love the game but it took me a long time to reach this conclusion as I've found this out too. Nothing scientific but feel I spot more without search arcs.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 4#p5142184

I ran actual tests and got some significant data supporting my conclusion. Other players have also reported that they found more subs for example by turning off naval search arcs.

Darojax wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:14 pm Hello, beginner here!

Question and Example situation: my Dive Bomber has "Naval Attack" as the assigned Group Mission and an altitude of 12,000 feet ( they need 10-15k feet to dive bomb) and also Patrol Levels "Search 20" and "ASW 20". I have read that Naval Search should be done at around 5-6k feet and ASW 1k feet. My resulting question, does the game automatically adjust to proper Search and ASW altitudes for those aircraft that do these patrols, or are all planes flying at 12,000 feet regardless, in effect making the Search and ASW patrols useless?

Thankyou for you assistance.

D

Thats a lot of DBs dedicated to search, keep in mind that is your most destructive asset before the USN gets reliable torpedoes. I don't even waste my devastators/TBs on attempting a torpedo run, I just level bomb from 10k.

My search looks like this, DBs at 10k at 10% search, TBs no search and CAP will vary depending on where I'm at, what I'm up against but mostly at 50% makes me feel comfortable. My surface ship assets do most of my sea search with night search/ day search/ at 1k and 6k.

As in all facets of this game as a carrier commander you need to adjust according to the situation you're faced with and sometimes throw the hard fast rules out.

In the past when theres no threat of attack and lots of enemy subs concentrated in an area you'll be surprised how many hits you get if you drop the DBs down to 6K and the TBs down to 1K and raise up search on both.

SuluSea wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:17 pm

Darojax wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:14 pm Hello, beginner here!

Question and Example situation: my Dive Bomber has "Naval Attack" as the assigned Group Mission and an altitude of 12,000 feet ( they need 10-15k feet to dive bomb) and also Patrol Levels "Search 20" and "ASW 20". I have read that Naval Search should be done at around 5-6k feet and ASW 1k feet. My resulting question, does the game automatically adjust to proper Search and ASW altitudes for those aircraft that do these patrols, or are all planes flying at 12,000 feet regardless, in effect making the Search and ASW patrols useless?

Thankyou for you assistance.

D

Thats a lot of DBs dedicated to search, keep in mind that is your most destructive asset before the USN gets reliable torpedoes. I don't even waste my devastators/TBs on attempting a torpedo run, I just level bomb from 10k.

My search looks like this, DBs at 10k at 10% search, TBs no search and CAP will vary depending on where I'm at, what I'm up against but mostly at 50% makes me feel comfortable. My surface ship assets do most of my sea search with night search/ day search/ at 1k and 6k.

As in all facets of this game as a carrier commander you need to adjust according to the situation you're faced with and sometimes throw the hard fast rules out.

In the past when theres no threat of attack and lots of enemy subs concentrated in an area you'll be surprised how many hits you get if you drop the DBs down to 6K and the TBs down to 1K and raise up search on both.

I agree that in 1942 DBs are your most effective naval anti ship weapon. If that's the case, why would you even put a single one of them on naval search or ASW? Wouldn't it be more effective to set your TBs as the search/asw craft and dedicate DBs to pure naval attack?

For me, I do:
DB - 100 percent Naval attack/rest. No patrols of any sort. I do not send those guys off to port strike or airfield strike early in the war, they are way to valuable to lose to AA. Altitude I set between 11 and 14K. Outside of the combat zone I set them at 80 percent training 20 percent rest.

TB - 30 percent search, 20 percent ASW, 30 percent training (ASW), 20 percent rest. Altitude is 6K. Slight penalty for ASW but search is more important. I never adjust this no matter where I am. Also, I make sure to change them to use bombs.
TB's Mk 13 torpedoes in 1942 also suffer from excessively high dud rates at 50 percent. That clears up by mid 1943. Thanks BuOrd! ( for more info, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_13_torpedo )

Fighters:If you can divide the groups. Two of the subgroups gets set to escort 100 percent at whatever alt your DBs are flying at. The third subgroup half gets set to cap 100 percent at their best altitude range. In 1942 thats 20K for your F4F-3 Wildcats. Of course adjust this as the situation warrants. Setting all of the subgroups as cap 60 rest 20 train 20 percent outside planned strike days is a good idea so you don't get surprised.

Arkham wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 3:06 pm

SuluSea wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 2:17 pm

Darojax wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:14 pm Hello, beginner here!

Question and Example situation: my Dive Bomber has "Naval Attack" as the assigned Group Mission and an altitude of 12,000 feet ( they need 10-15k feet to dive bomb) and also Patrol Levels "Search 20" and "ASW 20". I have read that Naval Search should be done at around 5-6k feet and ASW 1k feet. My resulting question, does the game automatically adjust to proper Search and ASW altitudes for those aircraft that do these patrols, or are all planes flying at 12,000 feet regardless, in effect making the Search and ASW patrols useless?

Thankyou for you assistance.

D

Thats a lot of DBs dedicated to search, keep in mind that is your most destructive asset before the USN gets reliable torpedoes. I don't even waste my devastators/TBs on attempting a torpedo run, I just level bomb from 10k.

My search looks like this, DBs at 10k at 10% search, TBs no search and CAP will vary depending on where I'm at, what I'm up against but mostly at 50% makes me feel comfortable. My surface ship assets do most of my sea search with night search/ day search/ at 1k and 6k.

As in all facets of this game as a carrier commander you need to adjust according to the situation you're faced with and sometimes throw the hard fast rules out.

In the past when theres no threat of attack and lots of enemy subs concentrated in an area you'll be surprised how many hits you get if you drop the DBs down to 6K and the TBs down to 1K and raise up search on both.

I agree that in 1942 DBs are your most effective naval anti ship weapon. If that's the case, why would you even put a single one of them on naval search or ASW? Wouldn't it be more effective to set your TBs as the search/asw craft and dedicate DBs to pure naval attack?

For me, I do:
DB - 100 percent Naval attack/rest. No patrols of any sort. I do not send those guys off to port strike or airfield strike early in the war, they are way to valuable to lose to AA. Altitude I set between 11 and 14K. Outside of the combat zone I set them at 80 percent training 20 percent rest.

TB - 30 percent search, 20 percent ASW, 30 percent training (ASW), 20 percent rest. Altitude is 6K. Slight penalty for ASW but search is more important. I never adjust this no matter where I am. Also, I make sure to change them to use bombs.
TB's Mk 13 torpedoes in 1942 also suffer from excessively high dud rates at 50 percent. That clears up by mid 1943. Thanks BuOrd! ( for more info, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_13_torpedo )

Fighters:If you can divide the groups. Two of the subgroups gets set to escort 100 percent at whatever alt your DBs are flying at. The third subgroup half gets set to cap 100 percent at their best altitude range. In 1942 thats 20K for your F4F-3 Wildcats. Of course adjust this as the situation warrants. Setting all of the subgroups as cap 60 rest 20 train 20 percent outside planned strike days is a good idea so you don't get surprised.

I like the idea of using Devastators as search instead of DBs prior to the torpedoes being fixed. I think I'll incorporate it into my next game. I cannot remember if I had one group set to torps and one to bombs by accident but had a small carrier duel.....Here's what finally made me switch to Devastators in bomb mode instead of using Torps, as I got zero hits as per usual from the torpedoes and liked the results from the bomb load keeping in mind these were damaged carriers from the morning sorties.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Midway Island at 158,92

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Allied aircraft
TBD-1 Devastator x 10

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Akagi, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Fuel storage explosion on CV Kaga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Kaga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Akagi


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Midway Island at 158,92

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 2
TBD-1 Devastator x 2

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Chikuma, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x TBD-1 Devastator bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
2 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CV Kaga
Fuel storage explosion on CV Kaga
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring CA Chikuma

--------------------------------------------

I was just tired of getting no results except losses game after game with the Devastator.

Against the computer in 1942, I usually have 2 or 3 US carriers together in a task force although sometimes I will have us British carrier with them. One VS will be at 50% search when the rest of the DBs will be set for Naval Bombing. The torpedo bombers will be set for 50% ASW with 50% training and I have had those actually bomb surface ships on their search missions. The only time that the American torpedo bombers will be set to Naval bombing is when I suspect or know that there are battleships in the area.

I will sometimes but a naval bomber unit ashore, especially if they are low on aircraft and there are not enough replacements. Those will be 100% training. If I have a US Marne fighter unit on a carrier using Buffaloes, those will be local CAP only while the Wildcats will do CAP and escort. Defensively the Buffaloes do a good job especially if they have an altitude advantage,

If I am Japanese and I have Claudes on my carriers, those are on local CAP at 6000 feet which work quite nicely against Allied torpedo bombers.

As far as fighting the Death Star goes, sink the carriers before any such thing can be formed. Maybe even capture the ports where they enter the game so they won't even be built.

Darojax wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2024 5:14 pm Hello, beginner here!

Question and Example situation: my Dive Bomber has "Naval Attack" as the assigned Group Mission and an altitude of 12,000 feet ( they need 10-15k feet to dive bomb) and also Patrol Levels "Search 20" and "ASW 20". I have read that Naval Search should be done at around 5-6k feet and ASW 1k feet. My resulting question, does the game automatically adjust to proper Search and ASW altitudes for those aircraft that do these patrols, or are all planes flying at 12,000 feet regardless, in effect making the Search and ASW patrols useless?

Thankyou for you assistance.

D

That is Japan tactics, if japan used his dive bombers to sink submarines (have short range but) , they will sink the entire USA subs, just put japan dives planes at 20% search at 6000 feet at naval the rest, and not only will sink submarines the naval position also the search position.

PaxMondo wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:29 am



For those who are newer here, the % rest you need to use is largely driven by the SR of aircraft involved. Higher SR requires more % rest. SR is partly driven by number of engines. Most players will find that for SR=1, 30% is adequate. For multi-engine planes like Mavis, don't be surprised if 60% or more rest is needed to keep fatigue at bay. a rough guide for rest that I use is:

Rest = 20% + 10% * SR

So for SR=1 planes, 30% works fine
for SR 4 planes like Mavis, 60% rest is needed.

I should also add the range of search impacts this, and going over normal range has a big impact, and going over 20 hexes range has an even bigger impact.

So, using Mavis as the example again, searching at max extended range of 25, you will find that you need 70% rest or more to keep fatigue (both pilot and airframes) under control. Consider this when creating your search/patrol zones. Don't make them too big.

Thank you for a great tip!
Does adding extra planes and pilots help to reduce the need for rest?

Nihonmachi wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2024 1:45 pm

PaxMondo wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:29 am



For those who are newer here, the % rest you need to use is largely driven by the SR of aircraft involved. Higher SR requires more % rest. SR is partly driven by number of engines. Most players will find that for SR=1, 30% is adequate. For multi-engine planes like Mavis, don't be surprised if 60% or more rest is needed to keep fatigue at bay. a rough guide for rest that I use is:

Rest = 20% + 10% * SR

So for SR=1 planes, 30% works fine
for SR 4 planes like Mavis, 60% rest is needed.

I should also add the range of search impacts this, and going over normal range has a big impact, and going over 20 hexes range has an even bigger impact.

So, using Mavis as the example again, searching at max extended range of 25, you will find that you need 70% rest or more to keep fatigue (both pilot and airframes) under control. Consider this when creating your search/patrol zones. Don't make them too big.

Thank you for a great tip!
Does adding extra planes and pilots help to reduce the need for rest?

Yes, it helps with both plane and pilot fatigue.