Altitude, Air Group Missions and Patrol levels

[Darojax]

Hello, beginner here!

Question and Example situation: my Dive Bomber has "Naval Attack" as the assigned Group Mission and an altitude of 12,000 feet ( they need 10-15k feet to dive bomb) and also Patrol Levels "Search 20" and "ASW 20". I have read that Naval Search should be done at around 5-6k feet and ASW 1k feet. My resulting question, does the game automatically adjust to proper Search and ASW altitudes for those aircraft that do these patrols, or are all planes flying at 12,000 feet regardless, in effect making the Search and ASW patrols useless?

Thankyou for you assistance.

D

[dr.hal]

I believe they will all fly at 12K. The way to get around this is to divide the unit and assign each sub-unit a specific mission with the most effective altitude.

[dr.hal]

BTW, I would be interested in knowing where you "read" about the most effective altitudes (you wrote "should be done at...") for ASW and Naval Search are written. I don't recall that being definitively stated. Thanks in advance.

[Platoonist]

In the past I've seen 5,000 ft stated as the best for ASW search and 1,000 ft best for ASW attack but where on this forum I saw that stated I can't recall.

[Sardaukar]

While Naval Search at 6000 ft and ASW at 1000 ft are most effective altitudes for mission, higher altitudes do not make missions useless.

Loss of efficiency is not that big. Might be if you go to maximum altitude, but e.g. my carrier planes do Naval Search at 15k and are doing just fine.

[Darojax]

The allegedly optimal altitudes, among other useful topics, are available in the Air_War_Guide_v2.3.pdf document found in this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=396274

In regards to your suggestion to divide air groups that seems useful, thankyou, however sadly it is not possible to do so for many carrier air groups.

[Darojax]

While Naval Search at 6000 ft and ASW at 1000 ft are most effective altitudes for mission, higher altitudes do not make missions useless.

Loss of efficiency is not that big. Might be if you go to maximum altitude, but e.g. my carrier planes do Naval Search at 15k and are doing just fine.

This is very useful to hear, thankyou.

[dr.hal]

The allegedly optimal altitudes, among other useful topics, are available in the Air_War_Guide_v2.3.pdf document found in this thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=396274

In regards to your suggestion to divide air groups that seems useful, thankyou, however sadly it is not possible to do so for many carrier air groups.

thanks for your candid response! I agree with "alleged"! Too many posters turn such words into definitive statements! Only the developers know what the algorithms are that result in an optimum altitude for a give function unless stated in the mamuel or follow-on posts, and they are not talking. Alfred was the only "regular" poster that I know of that had inside access to such materials and he no longer engages. So caution is advised when thinking a stated item is a fact unless game tested by players! For example, flying at low altitudes, 100-1K. may be best for detection, but induces LOTS of fatigue which can cause pilot loss! The guide you reference was first posted in '02!! Lots of water has gone under that bridge since then!!!!

[Platoonist]

The guide you reference was first posted in '02!! Lots of water has gone under that bridge since then!!!!

It's been edited ten times since and the last edit was in October 2023.

[dr.hal]

The guide you reference was first posted in '02!! Lots of water has gone under that bridge since then!!!!

It's been edited ten times since and the last edit was in October 2023.

Exactly my point!

[RangerJoe]

The guide you reference was first posted in '02!! Lots of water has gone under that bridge since then!!!!

It's been edited ten times since and the last edit was in October 2023.

Exactly my point!

There have been updates which is probably why the guide was edited.

[Chris21wen]

Just updated to Air War Guide v2.4.

[Yaab]

I just set all NavSearch/ASW at 5000 feet, 30% Rest so I don't have to deal with pilot fatigue.

[Sardaukar]

I just set all NavSearch/ASW at 5000 feet, 30% Rest so I don't have to deal with pilot fatigue.

I usually stack units with couple of extra pilots and planes, that way effects of pilot and plane fatigue are minimal.

E.g. 12 plane Catalina unit is with 14 pilots and 3-4 planes in reserve. 25 plane fighter unit might be with 28-30 pilots.

Same with other types of units. It of course depends on number of trained pilots and available planes on pools if one can do this or not.

[btd64]

I just set all NavSearch/ASW at 5000 feet, 30% Rest so I don't have to deal with pilot fatigue.

I usually stack units with couple of extra pilots and planes, that way effects of pilot and plane fatigue are minimal.

E.g. 12 plane Catalina unit is with 14 pilots and 3-4 planes in reserve. 25 plane fighter unit might be with 28-30 pilots.

Same with other types of units. It of course depends on number of trained pilots and available planes on pools if one can do this or not.

I do the same thing. But I put the squadron at 50% rest....GP

[PaxMondo]

I just set all NavSearch/ASW at 5000 feet, 30% Rest so I don't have to deal with pilot fatigue.

I usually stack units with couple of extra pilots and planes, that way effects of pilot and plane fatigue are minimal.

E.g. 12 plane Catalina unit is with 14 pilots and 3-4 planes in reserve. 25 plane fighter unit might be with 28-30 pilots.

Same with other types of units. It of course depends on number of trained pilots and available planes on pools if one can do this or not.

I do the same thing. But I put the squadron at 50% rest....GP

For those who are newer here, the % rest you need to use is largely driven by the SR of aircraft involved. Higher SR requires more % rest. SR is partly driven by number of engines. Most players will find that for SR=1, 30% is adequate. For multi-engine planes like Mavis, don't be surprised if 60% or more rest is needed to keep fatigue at bay. a rough guide for rest that I use is:

Rest = 20% + 10% * SR

So for SR=1 planes, 30% works fine
for SR 4 planes like Mavis, 60% rest is needed.

I should also add the range of search impacts this, and going over normal range has a big impact, and going over 20 hexes range has an even bigger impact.

So, using Mavis as the example again, searching at max extended range of 25, you will find that you need 70% rest or more to keep fatigue (both pilot and airframes) under control. Consider this when creating your search/patrol zones. Don't make them too big.

[Arkham]

I usually stack units with couple of extra pilots and planes, that way effects of pilot and plane fatigue are minimal.

E.g. 12 plane Catalina unit is with 14 pilots and 3-4 planes in reserve. 25 plane fighter unit might be with 28-30 pilots.

Same with other types of units. It of course depends on number of trained pilots and available planes on pools if one can do this or not.

I do the same thing. But I put the squadron at 50% rest....GP

For those who are newer here, the % rest you need to use is largely driven by the SR of aircraft involved. Higher SR requires more % rest. SR is partly driven by number of engines. Most players will find that for SR=1, 30% is adequate. For multi-engine planes like Mavis, don't be surprised if 60% or more rest is needed to keep fatigue at bay. a rough guide for rest that I use is:

Rest = 20% + 10% * SR

So for SR=1 planes, 30% works fine
for SR 4 planes like Mavis, 60% rest is needed.

I should also add the range of search impacts this, and going over normal range has a big impact, and going over 20 hexes range has an even bigger impact.

So, using Mavis as the example again, searching at max extended range of 25, you will find that you need 70% rest or more to keep fatigue (both pilot and airframes) under control. Consider this when creating your search/patrol zones. Don't make them too big.

Oh and BTW, be aware that search arcs are broken. You get better results if you just set them to no arcs.

[btd64]

I do the same thing. But I put the squadron at 50% rest....GP

For those who are newer here, the % rest you need to use is largely driven by the SR of aircraft involved. Higher SR requires more % rest. SR is partly driven by number of engines. Most players will find that for SR=1, 30% is adequate. For multi-engine planes like Mavis, don't be surprised if 60% or more rest is needed to keep fatigue at bay. a rough guide for rest that I use is:

Rest = 20% + 10% * SR

So for SR=1 planes, 30% works fine
for SR 4 planes like Mavis, 60% rest is needed.

I should also add the range of search impacts this, and going over normal range has a big impact, and going over 20 hexes range has an even bigger impact.

So, using Mavis as the example again, searching at max extended range of 25, you will find that you need 70% rest or more to keep fatigue (both pilot and airframes) under control. Consider this when creating your search/patrol zones. Don't make them too big.

Oh and BTW, be aware that search arcs are broken. You get better results if you just set them to no arcs.

Search arcs are not broken. I find that they do work....GP

[Arkham]

They work, but not setting arcs is more efficient and gets you better results.

[SuluSea]

They work, but not setting arcs is more efficient and gets you better results.

I think most of us are micro-managers at heart that's why we love the game but it took me a long time to reach this conclusion as I've found this out too. Nothing scientific but feel I spot more without search arcs.