How do you set up a target for Long Range Cap?

[Chris21wen]

The transport losses would show up as increased ops losses.

They was no increase in ops losses. One in ten days looks like normal ops losses and does not indicate any losses to CAP. I did run the test without CAP first and got same result.

You'd probably have to run it for a long time to see any real affects. Perhaps there should be an entry in the ops files when losses occur to CAP.

[Trugrit]

Yep,

There is still more stuff to learn on this.

I’ll have to take back what I said in my 5th post above:
“Cap to Cap won’t fight. Long range Cap to Cap won’t fight.”

I looked at this again.
Looks like they will fight under some circumstances.

You won’ get a combat animation or a combat report but…..

I set it up once again like I suggested in my above post.
This time the Japanese are flying LRcap over Allied base Batan Island.

The Allied fighters are flying LRcap over Batan Island as well from Laoag.

At Clark Field there are 4 transport groups flying supplies to Batan Island.

Ran the turn and there are Air to Air loss in both fighter groups.
I can see the pilots who got the kills.

The Allied transports don’t get a scratch…..which I expected.
It is very hard or near impossible for LRcap to down transports.

And…..it seems that if you stand down the transports the Japanese
and Allied fighters won’t fight each other…..you just get the ops loss.

What does that mean? The transports cause the long range fighters to fight?

Or does it mean the long range fighters are trying to fight each other all along
and they just can’t find each other in a 46 mile area?

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Air to Air.jpg (266.5 KiB) Viewed 520 times

[Zovs]

...

Trugrit, what mod are you using?

PS where can I get it?

[JanSako]

When transports are intercepted, there will be one of those pop-up messages you get during the turn replay saying 'Transport flight to XYZ intercepted'. If I recall correctly, this will cause no supply do be delivered or units picked up etc.
If the fighters really get to the transports, there will be further messages 'Transport [plane name] shot down by CAP/LRCAP', just like there are when a search plane is shot down. The losses are recorded as A-to-A

Here is 'proof':

2023-04-17_10-05-51.png (264.86 KiB) Viewed 486 times

[Trugrit]

...

Trugrit, what mod are you using?

PS where can I get it?

I use the Insignia Artwork:
https://sites.google.com/site/aewitplandairartwork/home
Downloads:
https://sites.google.com/site/aewitplan ... -downloads

They overwrite...so backup your art folder.

For the underlay artwork I make my own...You can’t get that anywhere.

But….you can make your own.

The process is similar to this:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9#p4751029

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3#p4508803

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1#p4617981

The underlay was made by a simple process:

1. Go into the games Art Folder and find the standard underlay.
2. In this case it is the a08.bmp…..mouse over it and it will tell you the size. (750 x 500 pixels)

3. Find a picture or map you like (Get one that is larger than 750 x 500 pixels) and use
Microsoft Paint to scale it down to 750 x 500 pixels (as shown below) to match
what the game uses and save it as a .bmp file.

4. Use Microsoft Photos to darken it or modify it.

5. Rename it to match the exact file name the game uses….a08.bmp.

6. Copy it into the art folder….overwrites file a08.bmp.

underlay.jpg (247.72 KiB) Viewed 476 times

[Chris21wen]

Did some more testing to confrim Trugrit observations. These are mine, can't say never as I didn't run them long enough but in most case I'd say they are correct.

LRCAP v LRCAP will engage each other over the target hex even if something else is the LRCAP target. E.g. a TF in the hex. LRCAP did not engaging outside of the target hex which is unlike LRCAP v bombers where they will engage upto 3 hexes away. LRCAP v CAP will engage but only over the CAPs base AND the LRCAP has that base as its target. CAP v CAP it never engaged.

As to the transport question I cannot prove one way or another that they do suffer losses form LRCAP or CAP, other say they do. But using the results of LRCAP and CAP testing I'd say they do.

None of these events appear in the combat report nor in the Ops report (other than as ops losses) or Combat events. The only way you'll know is if you were observing the units involved. e.g. testing.

[Trugrit]

Yep,

Below...The same setup except now with multiple Allied LRcap groups.
WITP-AE is also a game of numbers.

Say I’m in a PBEM game and I need to air transport supplies to my base at Batan Island.
I suspect that my opponent has set up LRcap over Batan Island to shoot down my transports.

The Japanese are are using one fighter group:
50th Sentai…..36 planes…..Oscars
LRcap over Batan Island, 10,000 ft.

I’m going to use two fighter groups at Laoag:
44th Fighter Sqn…..25 planes….P-38L Lightings.
No.23 Sqn RNZF…..24 planes….F4U-1D Corsairs

I’m going to use one fighter group at Clark Field:
VMF-225…...24 planes…..F4U-1A Corsairs

All three groups on LRcap at 10,000 Ft. over Batan Island.

The four transport groups moving supplies.

I ran the turn just once: No Allied Fighters were lost.
The Japanese lost 11 planes...10 A2A lost and 1 write off., 8 damaged.

But…..This is late war...Japanese Oscars up against Lightings and Corsairs.

By bringing in multiple LRcap groups the Allied player may be able to
shoot down the enemy LRcap over his base.

There are not any combat reports for the official records either side.
(It is like a clandestine CIA type mission on both sides)

Multiple LRcap.jpg (253.12 KiB) Viewed 420 times

[JanSako]

The shot down planes will show in the daily loss (Intel report screen) numbers and the total aircraft losses screen.
The latter suffers from FoW, admittedly.

Did you notice if the LRCAP vs LRCAP combat occurred during the transport phase? (you mentioned that you saw the 'rolling messages' related to it) If yes, that would mean the enemy LRCAP is trying to get to the transports.

[Trugrit]

The shot down planes will show in the daily loss (Intel report screen) numbers and the total aircraft losses screen.
The latter suffers from FoW, admittedly.

Did you notice if the LRCAP vs LRCAP combat occurred during the transport phase? (you mentioned that you saw the 'rolling messages' related to it) If yes, that would mean the enemy LRCAP is trying to get to the transports.

No, I did not see anything other than the phase.
It is a complete undercover operation top to bottom as far as I can see.

[Chris21wen]

The shot down planes will show in the daily loss (Intel report screen) numbers and the total aircraft losses screen.
The latter suffers from FoW, admittedly.

Did you notice if the LRCAP vs LRCAP combat occurred during the transport phase? (you mentioned that you saw the 'rolling messages' related to it) If yes, that would mean the enemy LRCAP is trying to get to the transports.

No, I did not see anything other than the phase.
It is a complete undercover operation top to bottom as far as I can see.

What Trugrit said.

[bush]

Trugrit - NOT with evidence, but I do run LRCAP on enemy bases in addition to sweeps and bombing missions. The LRCAP does engage enemy units and seems to get good A2A results. I started doing this years ago after reading about the poor results escort missions were getting - although looking back, it was probably a ton of user error in not coordinating the missions well.

[Chris21wen]

Interesting question, never tested it until know.

Before I go any further I'll repeat what I've said previously. 'Just becasue you give any order it does not mean that order will be carried out' There are many thing affecting any combat.


What I've observed about LRCAP.

• The very first thing to note is for LRCAP to engege they need a TARGET. If it doesn't have a target it behaves like CAP.
  Max Range matters. Basically LRCAP is CAP but over the target hex. It has a range of 3, maintaining a standing patrol over it. For this reason the number of aircraft in the patrol depends upon range from base to target hex.
  No a/c were ever on stby and none scrambled although some could be diverted.

LRCAP v Raids
Groups will divert from they assigned target to protect a different target in range and usually in far greater numbers, usually all ready a/c. This means there are no a/c left to ccontinue their patrol area after interception. This seems strange!

LRCAP v Sweeps
Same as against Raids.

LRCAP v CAP
Will engage but only over the CAPs base AND the LRCAP has that base as its target.

LRCAP v LRCAP+Raid
If you combine a raid with the LRCAP then you get a very confusing state where's the LRCAP engage the LRCAP + raid, results appearing in the combat report, plus you can also get extra losses due to any LRCAP v LRCAP (see below).

LRCAP or Sweep
What's the different between them; numbers. LRCAP is a patrol, Sweeps are strike missions hence tend to have more a/c and target only one hex. Results will refect that.



None of the following appear in the combat report nor in the Ops report (other than as ops losses) or Combat events. The only way you'll know is if you were observing the units involved. e.g. testing.

LRCAP v transport
Did not see any evidence that they did. I cannot prove one way or another that they do suffer losses form LRCAP or CAP, other say they do. But using the results of LRCAP and CAP testing I'd say they might. Possible only CAP will????

LRCAP v LRCAP
They will engage each other over the target hex even if something else is the LRCAP target. E.g. a TF in the hex. LRCAP did not engaging outside of the target hex which is unlike LRCAP v raids where they will engage upto 3 hexes away. How often they will is the question as they don't do it everytime.