Making 2D turn-based wargames

[Grotius]

Can anyone recommend a software development kit for making 2D, turn-based, hex-based (or non-hex-based) turn-based wargames? I've just made a little adventure game for my kids, and now I'm eager to try something a bit more ambitious. I don't need all the 3D features of Torque or Ogre or even 3D Gamestudio, but it'd be nice to have some sort of structure in place so that I can focus on the game itself rather than the engine. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Can anyone recommend a software development kit for making 2D, turn-based, hex-based (or non-hex-based) turn-based wargames? I've just made a little adventure game for my kids, and now I'm eager to try something a bit more ambitious. I don't need all the 3D features of Torque or Ogre or even 3D Gamestudio, but it'd be nice to have some sort of structure in place so that I can focus on the game itself rather than the engine. Anyone have any suggestions?

http://www.vassalengine.org

If that isn't sufficient you'd best just learn to make your own engine (It really isn't that difficult for 2D Games). Your not going to find any off the shelf product that is going to give any sort of headstart to a wargame AI or those types of things...

If you know how or learn to program you really do not have to go the DirectX route for most wargames. There are plenty of far simpler alternatives that will work for many (not all) wargame designs.

[junk2drive]

The War Engine by Boku over at Shrapnel games.
 
I don't know anything about how it is or works but it sounds like what you are asking for.

[Sarge]

Aide de Camp2 by HPS also has board game conversion and PBEM utility.

[JudgeDredd]

C# and C++ are prob the preferred tools of the trade for programming.

[martxyz]

Z80 machine code is the only way to go, for today's serious programmer of top-notch cutting-edge quality games. It's a tough job, but someone's gotta do it.

[:)]

[ravinhood]

Wargame Construction Set by SSI....

[Grotius]

Thanks for all those suggestions. Of all of them, Aide de Camp 2 seems closest to what I have in mind, but I'm not sure it fits the bill. I know it doesn't provide an AI, and it apparently it contains no tools for creating an AI; anyone know if it will permit me to code my own? Do you get the source code with it, or just the game construction set? (Yes, I do have some experience with C and C++.)

Along the same lines, anyone know what the license terms are for someone who creates their own game from scratch? Can I market it independently of ADC2, or must the game be played with ADC2, or does HPS claim royalties?

[Barthheart]

ADC2 is just a program to make board game into virtual board games. No rules implementation, no AI programming. You have to "do" everything yourself. Great tool for when you don't want to set up an actual board. Cyberboard is the same idea only freeware.

Some have created their onw game for ADC2. Some sell them, some give them away.

Two really good site to look at:

Die Hauptkampflinie: http://209.216.35.195/ - site of a bunch of game sets for ADC2

http://jamesburnett.com/gameroom.htm - user created super-game of WWII at teh battalion level... both ETO ad PTO....

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Thanks for all those suggestions. Of all of them, Aide de Camp 2 seems closest to what I have in mind, but I'm not sure it fits the bill. I know it doesn't provide an AI, and it apparently it contains no tools for creating an AI; anyone know if it will permit me to code my own? Do you get the source code with it, or just the game construction set? (Yes, I do have some experience with C and C++.)

Along the same lines, anyone know what the license terms are for someone who creates their own game from scratch? Can I market it independently of ADC2, or must the game be played with ADC2, or does HPS claim royalties?

Honestly, If your at all serious about making your own wargame (AI included), given you have some C++ experience, I would just start from scratch.

Download the Microsoft Visual Studio Express Edition and use Windows Forms 2.0 to create the GUI. No DirectX knowledge needed. No MFC knowledge needed. No mouse or keyboard programming. Ample graphics commands. Great layout tool now with snap grids and you can even drag and drop for database backends (no programming). The environment is only getting better year by year. Best yet everything you need to get started is free (well you might want to pick up a book or two on C#).

FREE Microsoft Visual C# Express Edition (The Newest version of the C language pronounced "See Sharp")
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualcsharp/

FREE Microsoft Visual C++ Express Edition (If You Insist on C++):
http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualc/

Any game you make will require the .NET 2.0 framework be installed on the client machine but many Matrix Games already use and require this....

[Grotius]

Thanks for the replies. Barthheart, those links were very helpful. And Veldor, you're confirming what I already suspected. (And no, I don't insist on C++; I've never touched C-sharp, but I've heard good things about it.) My only reservation about .NET is that users may be reluctant or scared to download it, but it does seem increasingly common.

Anyway, I'll get the MS tools you linked and give them a whirl. Interface design is one of my biggest interests, along with coding an AI. And doing the research. And constructing an OOB. And painting maps and counters. OK, it all sounds fun.

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Grotius
And Veldor, you're confirming what I already suspected. (And no, I don't insist on C++; I've never touched C-sharp, but I've heard good things about it.)

C# is very easy to learn if you already know C/C++. Furthermore if your sort of getting back into programming after being away awhile it will actually be easier as there is far less code to write with C#.

My only reservation about .NET is that users may be reluctant or scared to download it, but it does seem increasingly common.

Its a bit like DirectX and/or the Java Runtime engine these days. Its near to impossible that everyone doesn't at least have the 1.0 version installed. And as noted quite a few Matrix Games already require .NET, not to mention other publishers titles as well. I'd imagine Vista comes with it preinstalled (haven't checked).

Anyway, I'll get the MS tools you linked and give them a whirl. Interface design is one of my biggest interests, along with coding an AI. And doing the research. And constructing an OOB. And painting maps and counters. OK, it all sounds fun.

Good luck! If at some point your ready or willing to join a larger dev group/team consider joining my own. It's called Mnemonic Games. Website: www.mnemonicgames.com , email: info @ mnemonicgames.com
For after hours sorts of projects skill and efficiency just aren't as important as drive, ambition, and dedication. The later all turn out a better end product in my opinion.

[JeF]

Hi,

Along with Veldor recommandation for MS toolkits, you might want to check SDL : Simple DirectMedia Layer.
free, open source and supported on multiple platforms for multiple programming languages.
Dominions 3 is programmed with that toolkit. There are tons of examples available.

In the same vein, wxWidgets is the opensoure toolkit in which the soon-to-be-released CM Campaign is programmed.

I once tried to programmed a simple 2D wargame (halted early) and selected Python + SDL aka PyGame.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

JeF.

[Grotius]

Many thanks, JeF. I'd seen SDL before, but wxWidgets is new to me.

I have a couple questions about the MS tools. For one thing, I notice that MS just released .NET 3.0, but as near as I can tell, we're still supposed to use MS Forms 2.0. Is that right? Also, is there any reason not to upgrade to .NET 3.0? It will automatically be part of Vista anyway. And, most importantly, if one uses MS Forms to build an interface, must it look like a Windows app, with the window bar, red X, etc? I guess I should go play with it to see...

Incidentally, Veldor, I'm not ready to quit my day job yet. But one never knows.

[TemKarl]

Grotius,

Computer War In Europe II is built around a core 2D hex/turn based C++ engine developed 5 years ago. It's not for public release or sale, but if you've got any specific queries or questions on the topic drop me a line at cwie@iinet.net.au. Happy to help if I can...

[Veldor]

ORIGINAL: Grotius
I have a couple questions about the MS tools. For one thing, I notice that MS just released .NET 3.0, but as near as I can tell, we're still supposed to use MS Forms 2.0. Is that right? Also, is there any reason not to upgrade to .NET 3.0?

Microsoft originally more-or-less planned to replace .NET with WINfx in VISTA. But .NET really has far exceeded MS hopes and has a huge adoption rate. Even amongst many Java types that initially denounced it. Therefore around 6 months back they basically merged the 2 efforts into one and the result is .NET 3.0

WinFX was the programming model for Vista which essentially was the follow-on to Microsoft's Win32 technology.

.Net Framework 3.0 contains:

.Net Framework 2.0 (ASP.Net, WinForms, ADO.Net, and the CLR)
WCF (Windows Communication Foundation)
WPF (Windows Presentation Foundation)
WF (Windows Workflow)
WCS (Windows CardSpace) - Formerly InfoCard

I wouldn't really worry about it at this point until the next version of Visual Studio comes out (Or unless your really Vista Programming Crazy).

It will automatically be part of Vista anyway. And, most importantly, if one uses MS Forms to build an interface, must it look like a Windows app, with the window bar, red X, etc? I guess I should go play with it to see...

The defaults will mostly have the controls looking very windows like. But its nothing you can't do away with fairly easily. There are a variety of programming styles that more or less hide many of the actual controls (picture boxes are one simple example). You can also skin the whole thing or simply make your own custom controls. Buttons can be any graphic or shape really. But it allows you to easily lay out an interface and worry about those finishing touches later (The same with any game art related items really).

Incidentally, Veldor, I'm not ready to quit my day job yet. But one never knows.

Oh I'd never quit my day job in order to make wargames. Hardly a requirement these days as I'd have to guess 90% of wargame developers are either after-hours garage efforts, basically retired from their normal line of work, and/or offshore non-US residents.

[Grotius]

I was indeed able to make a quick and nasty GUI that looks nothing like a Windows interface. It's quite fun and easy to do. Just use some textures, and disable the default Windows properties (menu bar, minimize/max/close buttons, etc). I don't remember it being this easy when I last played with Visual C many moons ago.

My efforts at coding basic functions have been ok, too. My head starts to spin, though, when I'm trying to figure out which object should handle which event, etc. I like the OOP thing, but part of my brain still wants to think in a linear way. (I blame a misspent youth of BASIC, FORTRAN and (gasp) COBOL.) Anyway, I found some very helpful videos for newbs at the MS Visual C# website, and I'm looking forward to learning more tomorrow. All in all, this seems like a terrific tool for this project!

And I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who does this after hours.

[pzgndr]

Strategic Command 2. The latest v1.05 patch completes the editable AI scripting. The comprehensive editor allows modders to create custom maps, bitmap images, country and unit definitions, and edit just about everything in the game. Although the game has had some growing pains since release, with lots of suggestions from players along the way, the current version has incredible potential for making 2D turn-based wargames. I think you'll see a lot of innovation in the months ahead. Check it out.

[Peter Fisla]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Can anyone recommend a software development kit for making 2D, turn-based, hex-based (or non-hex-based) turn-based wargames? I've just made a little adventure game for my kids, and now I'm eager to try something a bit more ambitious. I don't need all the 3D features of Torque or Ogre or even 3D Gamestudio, but it'd be nice to have some sort of structure in place so that I can focus on the game itself rather than the engine. Anyone have any suggestions?

I'm not aware of any turn-based hex-based engine that come with some kind of documentation. There could be something in open source world, you will have to do some research. However even trying to understand the code that team of people or somebody else has written could be long time process so I have a suggestion for you:

Get this book, it talks about how to write your own hex/isometric game engine, it even comes with basic engine to start with. You need to know C++ and a bit of windows programming:

http://www.amazon.com/Isometric-Program ... F8&s=books

A few years ago I was in the same situation as you, and I had access to hex based engine and after a while trying to understand the code I gave up and wrote my own.

[oi_you_nutter]

here are some suggestions, that dont need C++/C# programming skills

Torque have a 2d game engine, using their scripting language (and/or LUA etc)

Game Maker is a free/cheap game designing interface, designed for ease of use. http://www.gamemaker.nl/

War Engine is simple but not hex based, its square based.

If you dont need AI, I would recommend VASSAL.