Very sneaky heheh

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 4:29 pm

Hmmm very sneaky switching Terror Bombing to Art of War hehe
(I am not surprised though, and glad all the same).

I myself thought it was potentially out of place here in General where we like to avoid the messier discussions.

I hope the AoW crowd doesn't expect me to pursue that thread in there to long though. It's rough on the footwear hehe:)

CCB · Post by **CCB** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 9:12 pm

Yeah, you need a pretty thick hide to survive the AoW forum. :p

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 11:08 pm

Well not so much a thick hide and a thick skull hehe:)

I have witnessed some comments that bear all the indications of either the person not wishing to see the obvious, or just not interested in any manner of contradictory viewpoint eh.

Those sorts of conversations are rarely rewarding.

troopie · Post by **troopie** » Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:16 am

I've just come from slumming over there. The quality of debate has declined precipitously in the last year. It now runs to name calling, link posting, and quoting dubious sources.

Perhaps you are right to avoid it.

troopie

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:01 am

It's kind of like the old saying by Abe Lincoln: "If you wrestle in the mud with a pig, you both just end up covered in mud, ...and the pig likes it."

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:10 am

Originally posted by Dave Briggs
It's kind of like the old saying by Abe Lincoln: "If you wrestle in the mud with a pig, you both just end up covered in mud, ...and the pig likes it."

(Talk about hubris...quoting myself.)

Well, I couldn't resist. I went over and got muddy. Kinda liked it too. What I don't understand is why is that forum called "The Art of Wargaming"? It should be called "The Art of Completely Useless Discussion." But I'm guilty too. Guess that makes me a useless pig.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:39 pm

You know my main beef with Art of Wargaming is likely just that eh, false advertising.

Its the same as the forum at Wargamer Discussions labelled AAR, where it is actually just used for redirecting you to Game Reviews (so it should be called Game Reviews).

I personally would not mind so much possibly (that's a big possibly), going into Art of Wargaming and mixing it up a bit (because I can sling it with the best of them), if the forum was labelled something less misleading, such as "The Pit" or "Fight Club".
I might go in there knowing I was not going to meet people thinking erroneously, that wargaming was ever going to be part of the discussion.

I also would not have to worry over new members to the forum gaining an incorrect view of Matrix, if the description of the forum had a disclaimer "Matrix does not officially support any views mentioned inside. Please do not enter if you are not prepared to defend yourself."

I don't preach censorship myself, and articulation is a skill I have no problem with. I have no trouble trashing a person's "good name" if their remarks have "slag me" written all over them. I would not say I would gleefully post "hateful statements", but then "hateful statements" is a subjective concept. And I would expect my statements to get the bum rush if they were idiotic in the viewpoint of the majority.

But Art of Wargaming is not being sold as a place to go and do verbal battle. It is offered up as a place for general chat. It isn't.
And that is primarily why you will find the Sarge in the General Forum, and not Art of Wargaming at this time.

davewolf · Post by **davewolf** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:40 pm

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
I have witnessed some comments that bear all the indications of either the person not wishing to see the obvious, or just not interested in any manner of contradictory viewpoint eh.

Really???

You must be kidding...

davewolf · Post by **davewolf** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:42 pm

Originally posted by Dave Briggs
It should be called "The Art of Completely Useless Discussion."

I still vote for "The Art of Bullsh!tting Forum"...

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:12 pm

Nope "Fight Club"

"Is this your first time in Fight club? then you have to fight".

troopie · Post by **troopie** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 9:08 am

How about something more military sounding, like "Sounding Off"? I go there, but as I explained there, I have a low taste for slumming.

troopie

abradley · Post by **abradley** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 10:27 am

I've been an active poster there for a couple of years and admit the subject matter has gone down.

When I first joined there was bunches about battles, wars, and the politics dealing with them. Plus there was a pretty varied group, ultra Liberal to ultra Conservative, and over all the subjects were more academic.

Can remember long discussion on generalship, strategy, and plain old everyday politics.

But the forum is only as good as the people that post on it, so if it's going down hill it's because we posters aren't posting good subjects or supporting those who do.

Have seen many good subjects posted, but they normally get less then a page of hits and are forgotten.

Moni Kerr posts good ones that get a couple of hits and then get forgotten, one of his latest is,

showthread.php?threadid=27130

I feel one problem may be that though many complain about 15 second sound bits - it's what they respond to. A long post with detail seldom gets the juices flowing.

Hopefully the forum will improve, but thread starters can't improve it by themselves, the participation of all is needed.

One item is that when it was first formed most if not all were active AOW wargamers and scenario designers who'd transferred from another (unnamed) forum - most of them have departed and the tempo has shifted almost cpmpletely to national and international politics. These were discussed in the past but something changed following 911 and now they're foremost to nearly the exclusion of anything else.

Addon
As for "wrestling with pigs", I got irritate once and stomped out swearing not to come back - as usual I ended up eating my words (Crow is tasty with bunches of Katsup) and came back. Must like the mud...they say it's good for the complexion!

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 4:15 pm

Troopie the only flaw in the notion of "more military sounding", is the topic matter of the forum would make the "more military sounding" label pointless.

After all, isn't Art of War about as "military sounding" as it is possible to get.

But the idea (my notion at least) in calling it "Fight Club" is so we can openly and honestly acknowledge, that the only point of the forum, is to go in there, roll of the verbal shirt sleeves, and "have at it"
With an understanding, no pussy foots or weenies or thin skinned dolts allowed, or at least the understanding would be, if you go in, don't complain when you get verbally thrown in the dirt.

It would be nice if the "discussion" was at least marginally military and civil, but it isn't. If you see a post by me in there, odds are it was "transferred" there after the thread got out of hand.
I never intentionally go into Art of War.

Brigz · Post by **Brigz** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 10:12 pm

I don't like that kind of debate either but I got caught up in something over there. Just like a kettle of boiling water, sometimes you just gotta lift the lid and let off some steam.

Jacc · Post by **Jacc** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:32 am

AoW is funny, if you can tke it more humorous than some unnamed posters take it...

Well, I visit there daily, it's actually quite revarding, but I have to visit the gym after it to beat the he11 out of the bag.
Name should be changed into "Delusions of the Stark Raving Lunatics" or "Europe vs. USA vs. the rest of the World", or "Nuke 'em!". That would be more revarding and alerting for newcomers. Lately, there have been no new people adding to the "potential" of the AoW, since most people go WTF after their first visit there.

And AAMOF - I tend to send the most debated threads there to the people I know and they keep laughing at it for weeks.

abradley · Post by **abradley** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:50 am

Originally posted by Jacc
AoW is funny, if you can tke it more humorous than some unnamed posters take it...
Well, I visit there daily, it's actually quite revarding, but I have to visit the gym after it to beat the he11 out of the bag.
Name should be changed into "Delusions of the Stark Raving Lunatics" or "Europe vs. USA vs. the rest of the World", or "Nuke 'em!". That would be more revarding and alerting for newcomers. Lately, there have been no new people adding to the "potential" of the AoW, since most people go WTF after their first visit there.

And AAMOF - I tend to send the most debated threads there to the people I know and they keep laughing at it for weeks.

As I said the forum is only as good as those that post on it, make it better!

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 5:43 am

Calling Art of War "funny" is like calling South Park funny or laughing at Andrew Dice Clay.

Sorry guys but I am a Bill Cosby fan myself.

My humour has to have style, taste, and not just appeal to my testicles:) .

troopie · Post by **troopie** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 7:32 am

Funny 'strange', Les, not funny 'ha-ha' perhaps? And I didn't mean 'military sounding' in the more 'martial' sense, but in the bunch of people shooting the sh1t over the booze sense. "Shooting the Sh1t' might even be the best name for it, but I doubt Matrix would accept that name.

troopie

KG Erwin · Post by **KG Erwin** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 8:16 am

I've posted some topics out there, and I seem to be engaged in a one-on-one discussion with a particular individual. The name-calling is juvenile, so I dismiss it, but I'm having a hard time with talking about relevant issues. These guys are either hard-core conservatives or young punks or worse, both! Nevertheless, as a 70s pseudo-intellectual open-minded militant libertarian, I keep plugging away--maybe, just maybe, I can at least make them think about a bigger picture other than their narrow-minded view of the world.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 8:18 am

I might be wrong (which would not be difficult actually due to lack of participation in there), but generally I like to "shoot the fertilzer" with guys I actually would drink beer with to some extent.

Maybe this is just my slant on posts I have actually witnessed (and not a good basis point for this at all), but I have seen some posters in there, that I would likely be inclined to walk away from, in the same manner I would walk away from anyone else obviously just wasting good oxygen in my presence.

It is not always how they say it, but more a matter of the fact they actually believe what they say.

I generally will avoid people that dip past a certain mark on my obtuse meter:) .

As a comedian once said in his routine "here's your sign" (in reference to person's of a known level of stupidity being required to wear a sign warning others of their potential stupidity hehe).

It has been my own experience, that it is ok to be wrong occasionally, but entirely different to be obtuse.

Very sneaky heheh

Very sneaky heheh

RE:AoW