NoCDs

abradley · Post by **abradley** » Tue Nov 26, 2002 8:01 pm

NoCDs

NoCD patches/fixes are great! I use them on every game or simulation that I can find one for. They stop me from having to swap CDs every time I decide to play something else and lessen the chances that my precious 'copy protected' CD will get damaged.

To quote the famous Jeremy Mac Donald at

http://www.tdg.nu/cgi-bin/YaBB/YaBB.pl? ... 1037925343

"But for me the most important aspect is that I can now take my actual copy of ACOW and put it in a hermetically sealed vault (OK in a box in my closet) and only rarely open it up to gaze upon it while Gregorian Chants play in the background.

I sleep better at nights knowing its safe and ready to be reinstalled should anything happen to my computer...Actually I think I will take it to a friends just in case my house burns down."

There's nothing like deciding to play 'Uncommon Valor' and not having to swap in the CD...instead all you do is double tap your desktop shortcut and it's there, like faithful Fido when you speak his name.

Wish Game producers would include them on the CD and in every upgrade---yes I know some group of cheaters could buy one copy and install it on all their computers---but they can do that now by buying one copy and burning copies with special programs. So why not make the product user friendly!

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 3:29 am

I'm surprised at you Abradley.

First the main reason for "no cd" patches is primarily so people can employ pirated games.
I know this as 90% of the games my friends possess are illegally copied games.

Further, the only reason for not including a cd in the drive requirement, can only be due to the demanding software requirement to make the games copy protected.

To come right out and ask a software maker to provide a no cd crack, is about the same as asking if you can sleep with a guys under age sister.

I mean really, I can't see any justification for no cd options at all.

Then again I know only one individual out of all the computers I do know, that takes proper care of their cds (proper care being to place the cd back in the jewel case when it is no in use).

I have never ever ever had a single cd ever ever give me any trouble what so ever. I have never ever ever had any trouble with the cd being required in the cd drive. I have never found it intrusive at all.

Ross Moorhouse · Post by **Ross Moorhouse** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:54 am

Just a friendly warning here. If any one posts a link to a no cd patch for our games I would have 2nd thoughts about doing this here. For sure discuss the ethics etc of this but please no links to ethier a site with these patches or a direct link to one..

Fallschirmjager · Post by **Fallschirmjager** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:36 am

This takes laziness to all new levels...

Ive only used a cd crack when I couldnt play a game due to me having a DVD drive.

Culiacan Mexico · Post by **Culiacan Mexico** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 11:56 am

Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
This takes laziness to all new levels...

I disagree. I have a laptop and do a lot of traveling; carrying around extra CDs is annoying to say the least.

abradley · Post by **abradley** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 2:45 pm

Posted by Les the Sarge 9-1 on Tuesday 1029 PM 26 Nov 02 :
I'm surprised at you Abradley.

Why?

First the main reason for "no cd" patches is primarily so people can employ pirated games. I know this as 90% of the games my friends possess are illegally copied games.

As for the 'No CD' being for pirated games. I don't see it!

I'm making a difference between mass produced 'Pirate Copies' and the individually copied disks---the individual copy will often take an upgrade, but I've yet to see a commercially produced pirate copy accept upgrades. And 'No CD' patches are usually for the upgraded games (a least that's what I use them for---all that I've seen are for specific versions, like 'myteu25.ace' is for Europa Universalis II V1.05 and won't work properly on earlier or later versions or any other game.

Lets say I've a Commercial pirated dupe of copy protected 'Jagged Alliance 2' (I do!) and it's got the normal 1st edition bugs making gaming unsatisfying. When the upgrades come out they don't work so my gaming doesn't get any better, the only way to improve it is Buy the real thing and support a game and company your happy with.

But are you basing your point on people who buy a legit game, copy it then pass it to friends. If so what will a 'no cd' patch do to encourage this, the friends already have the game cd and most likely it was copied with a program allowing it to accept upgrades. I don't see how a 'NoCD' patch encourages this.

But a 'No Cd' patch can encourage a group getting together and buying a copy between them, individually installing and 'No CD' patching, and then passing the game on to others in the group. I've heard of this happening---but who gets the manual?

Also the 'no cd' patches are for non-commercially pirated games

Why do you say that? I've several games on my system using 'No Cd' patches and every game on my machine is legal, and upgraded!
If you go to a site with patches for 'no cds', I believe you'll see they're normally for upgraded games---am talking about wargames, haven't looked at the others.

Further, the only reason for not including a cd in the drive requirement, can only be due to the demanding software requirement to make the games copy protected.

If I understand you correctly your saying that copy protected games can't be 'No Cded'! But I've got four legit copy protected games 'No Cded' on my system now, JA2 Ver 1.07, JA2UB Ver 1.01, EU II Ver 1.05, and TOAW-ACW Ver 1.04. Plus another 8 (legit) un-copy protected gems from HPS that are 'No-Cded'. Haven't found a 'No CD' for Decisive Action---but I am looking!

Or are you saying that many games have much of the data used during play on the cd, I've seen this, but only in one of the above, TOAW-ACW has the intro file on the cd and this is handled by explicit instructions on changing a registry entry and adding a dummy directory and file to the game directory. Even I could do it!

To come right out and ask a software maker to provide a no cd crack, is about the same as asking if you can sleep with a guys under age sister.

For 'No CD' I disagree, but for copy protection..that's a different story. I remember when un-copy protected 'East Front (1)' came out, it sold pretty well but was buggy and the printed manual was near useless. Talonsoft decided to bring out a campaign disk with a new big printed manual. It hit the market and sold like hotcakes, in fact sold many, many more then the game.

Why? Because people had duped the game but couldn't dupe the manual..so they bought the package for the 'Manual', at least that's what Talonsoft figured and their follow on games were all copy protected. This may show how best to copy protect in the future, a little of the past, have a darned good manual and a 'go-nogo' question referenced to the manual during the game. As most remember, that's how it was done when 'Dos disk encryption' was found to be impractical because Floppies didn't last.

I mean really, I can't see any justification for no cd options at all.

Then again I know only one individual out of all the computers I do know, that takes proper care of their cds (proper care being to place the cd back in the jewel case when it is no in use).

Now you know two. I also place my cds in cases immediately, when not in use.

I have never ever ever had a single cd ever ever give me any trouble what so ever. I have never ever ever had any trouble with the cd being required in the cd drive. I have never found it intrusive at all.

I have destroyed a couple that I remember---one stands out, stupid, think I was on the net and I needed my electronic Encyclopedia, so I opened my cd-drawer, reached down, carefully extracted my only JA2 play disk, and dropped it. It landed out of sight, I moved my roller chair back looking, rolled over it in the process, grinding grit and what all into the grooves. Took me near 3 months to get another copy through 'Chips and Bits'! The other was while traveling, had it in my carryon bag, but here in Thailand there is little room for anything in Buses so rather then be a bit crowed I put the bag in the underneath storage. Believe they were shipping several tons of lead ingots on that trip and naturally they repositioned my bag beneath all.

abradley · Post by **abradley** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 2:51 pm

Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
This takes laziness to all new levels...

Ive only used a cd crack when I couldnt play a game due to me having a DVD drive.

I used to say that about TV, CD, DVD, and tape remote controlls!;)

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 5:49 am

I would list all the games I have seen played thanks to their being pirated, but I haven't the time or inclination to type in the name of every game I have ever seen.

As for the "no CD" thing, hmmm well some games need them and some games don't.
Steel Panthers for instance doesn't. The Mega Campaigns are the same.
The only thing keeping Mega Campaigns off the pirate scene is a code of honour among wargamers.
Sorry guys but I know as many wargaming jerks as I do non wargaming jerks.

The ONLY reason for making a game require a cd, is to ensure the user actually has the cd. This is a copywriting concept. It is intrusive and it is annoying, so isn't theft.

As for damaging a one only cd, sorry but it happens, it's called bad luck. I hardly doubt that a game manufacturer is responsible for ensuring you are not victimised by fate.

As for playing it on the occasional machine such as a laptop??? what's a laptop for if not for work. Should you be trying to play all those games on your laptop in the first place? Can't you at least settle for one blooming game in the first place?

I could debate the matter indefinitely of course. But I know the truth, "no CD" fixes are not about keeping your precious original copy safe in a vault.
Either you are incredibly lazy, or you wish to get the game online and then play it sans cd.

That's a sweeping statement, but I am surrounded by people that can prove I am right.
As Ross has asked (not that I would ever do such a cretinous act), I am not showing you the many links I know of that allow a person to play any game you can name, for nothing beyond the span of time needed to download the files.
But I know they are there.

abradley · Post by **abradley** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 7:07 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
{Snip}
Either you are incredibly lazy, or you wish to get the game online and then play it sans cd.{snip}

I am neither "Either you are incredibly lazy, or you wish to get the game online and then play it sans cd"!

Thank you for the reasoned discussion!

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 7:21 am

That sounded wrong, I meant the public at large not specifically you Abradley, sorry if the statement sounded too directed at you personally.

But I do have to stand by my feelings, that "no cd" fixes are not required, and are generally abused by people who share no concern for copywrite violation.

Culiacan Mexico · Post by **Culiacan Mexico** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 9:44 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
As for playing it on the occasional machine such as a laptop??? what's a laptop for if not for work. Should you be trying to play all those games on your laptop in the first place? Can't you at least settle for one blooming game in the first place?

Since you are making sweeping accusations...

Where have you been? Most laptops now come with 3D chips, and sales have or will soon exceed desktop sales. As for settling for one game...please!

I like the fact I don’t have to install a disk every time I us a program (Word, Excel, Media Player, etc) and if games were the same way that would good for me also, but that is the choice of those who make the games, because they have their own factors to consider…piracy for one. Their concern for piracy doesn’t change the fact that it would be better for me, personally, if they did it a different way. I will buy the games regardless.

You seem quite willing to look at everything from your point of view... feel everything is fine, and then belittle everyone else.
Nice.

Arralen · Post by **Arralen** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:53 pm

I really do hate games that require a CD in the drive all the time.

I have a SCSI-system, and drives are getting really expnsive these days. But they won't last long if abused as copy-protection by games. And juggling CDs isn't much fun either.

By the way - how many people do you know that have (or had) the game "Stars!" pirated? I wonder why what worked with that game couldn't with all others.

A.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 6:29 pm

I had a long winded reply, but once again I hit just the right key stroke by mistake to delete it hehe (too funny).

So here is something else (I ain't typing my thoughts all out again)

Why should I defend YOUR opinion? Of course I am going to support my view. Willingly? Well how else would you have me do it?

Belittle you? no I am belittling the practice of whining about the need to use a cd.

I live in perhaps the most electronically serviced region on the planet. I know of no one that has a laptop and I have never met anyone that uses one. I have been around computers since they arrived, and almost everyone I can think of has a high end non lap top system.

If laptops are selling more, it's probably because you can't sell a PC to someone that already has one. Then again, I have seen my friends upgrade their systems more times than I can recall.

Guys I don't expect you to like every view I support, but I do expect you to debate me in a fashion that bespeaks a bit more than petulant hurt little children.

abradley · Post by **abradley** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 12:58 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
{snip}

Belittle you? no I am belittling the practice of whining about the need to use a cd.

{snip}

"...whining..."

Who do you think you are?

Who has whined?

A person makes a suggestion without anomosity, then attempts to discuss it in a civilized manner and you come back with the sweeping statesments: "Either you are incredibly lazy, or you wish to get the game online and then play it sans cd" and "no I am belittling the practice of whining about the need to use a cd."

I am sure you'll come back with a reply like "..I meant the public at large not specifically you..".

I am not sure if you purposely mean to insult or if it's a 'Freudian' slip, but you need to brush up on common courtesy!

Culiacan Mexico · Post by **Culiacan Mexico** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:17 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Why should I defend YOUR opinion? Of course I am going to support my view. Willingly? Well how else would you have me do it?

I have no problem with you or anyone else supporting your position. Where in my post did I say that?

Belittle you? no I am belittling the practice of whining about the need to use a cd.

”annoying to say the least” you see this statement as whining.

I live in perhaps the most electronically serviced region on the planet. I know of no one that has a laptop and I have never met anyone that uses one. I have been around computers since they arrived, and almost everyone I can think of has a high end non lap top system. If laptops are selling more, it's probably because you can't sell a PC to someone that already has one. Then again, I have seen my friends upgrade their systems more times than I can recall.

So you confess you have no experience with laptops, then perhaps you should with hold judgment until you do?

Guys I don't expect you to like every view I support, but I do expect you to debate me in a fashion that bespeaks a bit more than petulant hurt little children.

Debate… it doesn’t look like you understand the word. You make broad accusation or statements about people and equipment you know nothing about and then call people children when they challenge you on it.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:18 am

Hmm I think I will just fall back on my proven track record here on the forum as being civil Abradley, and let you deal with it.

I will only add the famous saying... Me thinks you do protest to much.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:31 am

Mexico I mention people by name when my comment is specifically for them, if I do not mention a person by name, then my comment is not specifically for any one person.

Therefore persons that get bent out of shape at my comments (that are not specifically directed at them in print) are merely getting bent out of shape at the own discretion.

As for the lap tops, just because I have never owned one has nothing to do with my knowledge of them.

Any more than my knowledge of anything else for that matter.

Culiacan Mexico · Post by **Culiacan Mexico** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 1:56 am

Wednesday 0856 AM 27 Nov 02

I disagree. I have a laptop and do a lot of traveling; carrying around extra CDs is annoying to say the least.

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Thursday 0249 AM 28 Nov 02

As for playing it on the occasional machine such as a laptop??? what's a laptop for if not for work. Should you be trying to play all those games on your laptop in the first place? Can't you at least settle for one blooming game in the first place?

Thursday 0644 AM 28 Nov 02
Where have you been? Most laptops now come with 3D chips, and sales have or will soon exceed desktop sales. As for settling for one game...please!

You seem quite willing to look at everything from your point of view... feel everything is fine, and then belittle everyone else.

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Thursday 0329 PM 28 Nov 02

Belittle you? no I am belittling the practice of whining about the need to use a cd.

I live in perhaps the most electronically serviced region on the planet. I know of no one that has a laptop and I have never met anyone that uses one. I have been around computers since they arrived, and almost everyone I can think of has a high end non lap top system.

If laptops are selling more, it's probably because you can't sell a PC to someone that already has one. Then again, I have seen my friends upgrade their systems more times than I can recall.

-----

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Mexico I mention people by name when my comment is specifically for them, if I do not mention a person by name, then my comment is not specifically for any one person.

Odd, since it sure looks like you were responding to me especially since I was the one who brought up laptops.

Therefore persons that get bent out of shape at my comments (that are not specifically directed at them in print) are merely getting bent out of shape at the own discretion.

As for the lap tops, just because I have never owned one has nothing to do with my knowledge of them. Any more than my knowledge of anything else for that matter.

“I know of no one that has a laptop and I have never met anyone that uses one.” By your own admission… no experience. Correct?

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 2:34 am

Hmmm

I will settle for asking you two to just go back to Art of Wargaming I suppose (yes I looked in your thread histories).

This thread I think is a bit thread bare at this point.

I have said what I can, I see no particular need to express my points endlessly. I have concluded that I will not likely be seeing this conversation go anywhere any time soon.

So I will end my interest in it now.

End of transmission.

Culiacan Mexico · Post by **Culiacan Mexico** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 2:40 am

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Hmmm

I will settle for asking you two to just go back to Art of Wargaming I suppose (yes I looked in your thread histories).