WEGO games, what happened to them?

[SapperAstro_MatrixForum]

Perhaps I am blind, but are there any decent WEGO wargames out these days? I know about the Panther games, but since these are sold elsewhere, in an odd form, I haven't really bothered with any of the new games. Am I missing any others?

I still remember the old SSG games, like the Battlefront series (original), Decisive battles of the American Civil war, etc, and then enjoying the Panther games that were sold here (Conquest of the Aegean, etc) but really, there haven't been, to my knowledge, anyone else developing these games.

I love pushing counters, but I would love to play some new, decent, WEGO wargames.

[budd]

A few forums down

tt.asp?forumid=1646

[SapperAstro_MatrixForum]

Thanks Budd, I guess I just overlooked that, looks promising.

[HeinzBaby]

The Best WEGO sim for me is 'Flash Point Campaigns-Red Storm' - 1980's NATO-Soviet grand tactical. A+ (unashamed plug)
There is a Forum here at Matrix.
John Tiller 'Gold' Panzer Battles, 'Panzer Campaigns' series are great - WWII - B+, but only YouGoIgo, thou the 'Opportunity fire' works great as compensation.

[RFalvo69]

ORIGINAL: SapperAstro

Perhaps I am blind, but are there any decent WEGO wargames out these days? I know about the Panther games, but since these are sold elsewhere, in an odd form, I haven't really bothered with any of the new games.

I don't know what do you mean with "odd", but I have all Command Ops 2 on Steam - the way I have Gary Grigsby's War in the East and War in the West.

[SapperAstro_MatrixForum]

I always like to own my games. I still have disks from the 90s that work (with a few work arounds due to operating system changes) even though the companies are long dead. Currently finishing off a campaign of Steel Panthers 1. Not bad considering SSI is long dead. Good Old Games, now that is an online operation I can respect. No DRM, just buy, download and play. All catalogued online in case you want to download it again later, or you can save all of your games to disk.

I think companies can be quite silly. Pirates crack their system on day 1, but the paying customer gets screwed having to run through hoops. Thankfully, Matrix hasn't gone down that path, with a simple key being the only hoop to jump through.

[Lobster]

ORIGINAL: SapperAstro

I always like to own my games. I still have disks from the 90s that work (with a few work arounds due to operating system changes) even though the companies are long dead. Currently finishing off a campaign of Steel Panthers 1. Not bad considering SSI is long dead. Good Old Games, now that is an online operation I can respect. No DRM, just buy, download and play. All catalogued online in case you want to download it again later, or you can save all of your games to disk.

I think companies can be quite silly. Pirates crack their system on day 1, but the paying customer gets screwed having to run through hoops. Thankfully, Matrix hasn't gone down that path, with a simple key being the only hoop to jump through.

I have lots of old games on disk too. Some won't even work anymore because they won't load on newer systems. I used to keep an old rig around just for them but decided it wasn't worth the bother. Sometimes GOG or another company will present updated versions but I have no desire to pay for them again.

Steam is not going anywhere. You can download your games to your hard drive and you can play them without an internet connection if the game itself does not require it. Considering the huge market share Steam has you are most likely not playing a lot of new games. The hoops I run through on Steam are buy the game, install the game, play the game. It's a great platform and is designed for gamers.

Wiki:
The Steam platform is the largest digital distribution platform for PC gaming, estimated in 2013 to have 75% of the market space.[4] By 2017, users purchasing titles through Steam totaled roughly $4.3 billion, representing at least 18% of global PC game sales.[5] By early 2018, the service had over 150 million registered accounts with a peak of 18.5 million concurrent users online. The success of the Steam platform has led to the development of a line of Steam Machine microconsoles, as well as the SteamOS operating system.

[MrsWargamer]

WEGO as a design isn't to hard to find, but, the designs using it are not always what the gamer seeks.

Combat Mission is WEGO. But it is fully 3d.
Combat Command is WEGO. It's a bit older, but age hasn't prevented Steel Panthers from being great, so Combat Command might interest you just as easily.
If you can get V4Victory running through DOS Box they were good designs.

Desert War will have an advantage as it is new software.

If I could snap my fingers and make it so, ALL computer wargames would use WEGO in distint turn increments. WEGO is the only computer design element I've ever witnessed that lacks 'gamey' elements. It requires the gamer to actually have a plan, and to actually run with that plan. Because once you hit end turn, there's no option to pause and change your mind. No option to constantly alter decisions with feverish mouseclicking. The turn will resolve and you will have to just wait and see the results. We hardly seem to be making any real use out of the mechanical muscle of computers in our wargames.

[SapperAstro_MatrixForum]

Lobster: I use various methods with my older games; Dosbox, Emulators for C64/Amiga (I have a Raspberry Pi 3 with full C64 and Amiga systems operating on them, with all of my games ready to roll at a moments notice, and many I never had back in the day), Virtual Machine with win98, and as my main PC is dual boot win10 and Ubuntu, WINE in Linux for some of the other stubborn stuff. Took me ages to set all these up, but now that they run, nothing is out of reach from any era.

MrsWargamer; I have always been partial to WEGO, for many of the same reasons as yourself, ever since playing the old SSG games on the C64, though it seems not a great deal has been done with it apart from odd cases here and there. SSG never built on the system after the Battlefront system was put to bed, Command Ops has slowed to a crawl with engine increments over actual scenario/campaign packs (they have'nt even gotten to the Crete scenarios from CotA!)..and, nothing much else. I think I will purchase this new North Africa game, as it looks quite promising.

[altipueri]

The Ageod games are WEGO - Wars of Succession being the latest and two versions of a Civil War game.

I don't really think of the Panther games as WEGO - more pausable real time - to that extent a bit like Paradox games.

I still like the WEGO of Combat Mission - and I prefer the older earlier games to the later - especially as I found I can run them on Windows 8.1 and 10.

Campaigns on the Danube is old but is a WEGO that had an update about a year ago.

[Kuokkanen]

One WEGO game under work is Armored Brigade. It is RTS by default, but can be played WEGO too. Single player only. Slitherine is publisher. Should be ready soon...

[TheGrayMouser]

HPS Ancient Battles series
Galley battles( new and here at matrix)
Dominions I thru V

[Grotius]

Arise, thread! Do you guys have any views about what scale of game is best suited to WEGO? Is it best for operational, say? Not so good for strategic? Better for naval games than land warfare? I ask because I'm messing around with a prototype of a WEGO engine I've created, and I'm trying to decide what would be the most fun scale and setting for it.

[RangerJoe]

You want a large mass of units all over, going different places, plus supplies to haul, fuel to transport, not to mention running the economy just perfectly.

That said, a small tactical game possibly with orders to "react" and fire on certain units at a certain range.

[Grotius]

Thanks, Ranger Joe. So you think such a system is best with a large number of units? I'm inclined to agree.

[loki100]

don't think you can have too many hard assumptions. AGEOD used it (very well) for games running from grand strategy to operational, to low density (say Wars in America) to high density (Civil War 2).

Flashpoint has low and very high density scenarios and also calls into question whether wego order games can cope with relatively fast movement.

My view on this now is that you need to match up ground scale/time scale. A WW2 streategy Wego using say the Pride of Nations map would be a disaster, large areas/2 weeks turns and the wego mechanics?

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Thanks, Ranger Joe. So you think such a system is best with a large number of units? I'm inclined to agree.

I was being a little sarcastic with the big games being the best if there is no pause. A person can't keep an eye on everything. A real leader would have staff to handle a lot of things that the game player has to do.

[altipueri]

I like WEGO systems - Combat Mission;Ageod games; Campaigns on the Danube. But here is how Montgomery got his maps updated:


From Winston Churchill's "The Second World War". Chapter XXIV "Crossing the Rhine"

At 8 p.m. we repaired to the map wagon, and I now had an excellent opportunity of seeing Montgomery's methods of conducting a battle on this gigantic scale. For nearly two hours a succession of young officers, of about the rank of major, presented themselves. Each had come back from a different sector of the front. They were the direct personal representatives of the Commander-in-Chief, and could go anywhere and see anything and ask any questions they liked of any commander. As in turn they made their reports and were searchingly questioned by their chief the whole story of the day's battle was unfolded. This gave Monty a complete account of what had happened by highly competent men whom he knew well and whose eyes he trusted. It afforded an invaluable cross-check to the reports from all the various headquarters and from the commanders, all of which had already been sifted and weighed by General de Guingard, his Chief of Staff, and were known to Montgomery. By this process he was able to form a more vivid, direct and sometimes more accurate picture. The officers ran great risks, and of the seven or eight to whom I listened on this and succeeding nights two were killed in the next few weeks. I thought the system admirable, and indeed the only way in which a modern Commander-in-Chief could see as well as read what was going on in every part of the front. This process having finished, Montgomery gave a series of directions to de Guingand, which were turned into immediate action by the Staff machine. And so to bed.

* * * * *

The next day, March 25, we went to meet Eisenhower. On our way I told Montgomery how his system resembled that of Marlborough and the conduct of battles in the eighteenth century, where the Commander-in-Chief acted through his lieutenant-generals. Then the Commander-in-Chief sat on his horse and directed by word of mouth a battle on a five or six mile front, which ended in a day and settled the fortunes of great nations, sometimes for years or generations to come. In order to make his will effective he had four or five lieutenant-generals posted at different points on the front, who knew his whole mind and were concerned with the execution of his plan. These officers commanded no troops and were intended to be off-shoots and expressions of the Supreme Commander. In modern times the general must sit in his office conducting a battle ranging over ten times the front and lasting often for a week or ten days. In these changed conditions Montgomery's method of personal eye-witnesses, who were naturally treated with the utmost consideration by the front-line commanders of every grade, was an interesting though partial revival of old days.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: altipueri

I like WEGO systems - Combat Mission;Ageod games; Campaigns on the Danube. But here is how Montgomery got his maps updated:


From Winston Churchill's "The Second World War". Chapter XXIV "Crossing the Rhine"

At 8 p.m. we repaired to the map wagon, and I now had an excellent opportunity of seeing Montgomery's methods of conducting a battle on this gigantic scale. For nearly two hours a succession of young officers, of about the rank of major, presented themselves. Each had come back from a different sector of the front. They were the direct personal representatives of the Commander-in-Chief, and could go anywhere and see anything and ask any questions they liked of any commander. As in turn they made their reports and were searchingly questioned by their chief the whole story of the day's battle was unfolded. This gave Monty a complete account of what had happened by highly competent men whom he knew well and whose eyes he trusted. It afforded an invaluable cross-check to the reports from all the various headquarters and from the commanders, all of which had already been sifted and weighed by General de Guingard, his Chief of Staff, and were known to Montgomery. By this process he was able to form a more vivid, direct and sometimes more accurate picture. The officers ran great risks, and of the seven or eight to whom I listened on this and succeeding nights two were killed in the next few weeks. I thought the system admirable, and indeed the only way in which a modern Commander-in-Chief could see as well as read what was going on in every part of the front. This process having finished, Montgomery gave a series of directions to de Guingand, which were turned into immediate action by the Staff machine. And so to bed.

* * * * *

The next day, March 25, we went to meet Eisenhower. On our way I told Montgomery how his system resembled that of Marlborough and the conduct of battles in the eighteenth century, where the Commander-in-Chief acted through his lieutenant-generals. Then the Commander-in-Chief sat on his horse and directed by word of mouth a battle on a five or six mile front, which ended in a day and settled the fortunes of great nations, sometimes for years or generations to come. In order to make his will effective he had four or five lieutenant-generals posted at different points on the front, who knew his whole mind and were concerned with the execution of his plan. These officers commanded no troops and were intended to be off-shoots and expressions of the Supreme Commander. In modern times the general must sit in his office conducting a battle ranging over ten times the front and lasting often for a week or ten days. In these changed conditions Montgomery's method of personal eye-witnesses, who were naturally treated with the utmost consideration by the front-line commanders of every grade, was an interesting though partial revival of old days.

While Patton, although commanding smaller forces, was going to the front himself. Maybe even directing traffic as well. But of course, he knew where the good Roman roads were.