Delta Variant - please no politics

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Inject some untested DNA crap into my body for their manufactured flu, which I have 99.9% survival rate? No thanks.

Better cook up a stronger batch to get my attention.

-EJR

[springel]

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

Inject some untested DNA crap into my body for their manufactured flu, which I have 99.9% survival rate? No thanks.

Better cook up a stronger batch to get my attention.

-EJR

I wish you long covid.

[RangerJoe]

Everyone who is allergic to eggs should get a flu shot and walk out the door, go to the woods, and be alone. Do not tell anyone where you are going either . . .

Not everyone should get the vaccine.

[RangerJoe]

https://abc7ny.com/javits-center-death- ... /10321962/

Health care worker dies after second dose of COVID vaccine, investigations underway
‘The message is, be safe, take the vaccine — but the officials need to do more research. We need to know the cause,’ said the wife of Tim Zook of Orange

https://www.ocregister.com/2021/01/26/h ... -underway/

In an unfortunate turn of events, doctors and front health workers at the center of the coronavirus disease (Covid-19) management in Indonesia are themselves turning sick, with many of them dead, after being administered the Chinese vaccine -- Sinovac. In a report carried by the New York Times on Friday, the Indonesian Medical Association attested that at least 20 doctors who have died in the country since the pandemic began were fully vaccinated with Sinovac Biotech, the Chinese-made vaccine. The vaccination status of as many as 31 others who passed away in the last five months is currently being looked into.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-ne ... 01232.html

[RangerJoe]

56-Year-old Greek Woman Dies Minutes After Second Pfizer Vaccine

https://greekreporter.com/2021/06/18/gr ... r-vaccine/

[RangerJoe]

The medical examiner's report said there wasn't enough evidence to show whether the vaccine contributed to Michael's death.

"Given the history, autopsy, toxicology, and laboratory findings, the cause of death is complications of immune thrombocytopenia following receipt of SARS-CoV-2 vaccine," the report said. "Based on the circumstances as currently known, the manner of death is natural."

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/loc ... r/2424281/

[Zorch]

Ok, I'll make one more post.
Let me see if I understand your argument. Over 4 billion shots have been given, 2 people happened to die after receiving them, and you say this is proof the vaccine is dangerous? Please tell me if I have misrepresented your position.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

I have faith in the Lord of Hosts, that my time has not come, yet. The wages of sin is death, when the Master calls, then I will go.

[DonH58]

Here is more proof that many had died. Most health care workers well tell you that VAERS is way under reported and as little as 10% gets sent in. Oh and this is just the USA report. If you look at the history of vaccines that have been pulled off the market not one has over 50 deaths attributed to them.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

They died with their faith in science.
Where I say, worship the Creator, more than the Creation.

[RangerJoe]

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Ok, I'll make one more post.
Let me see if I understand your argument. Over 4 billion shots have been given, 2 people happened to die after receiving them, and you say this is proof the vaccine is dangerous? Please tell me if I have misrepresented your position.

In other words, you have completely ignored the report from Indonesia . . .

Ignore what does not fit your narrative and what does that get you.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Gilmer

I'm vaccinated. And there is a lot of misinformation on both sides. Fauci has contributed to this because there are verified videos and everything of him say exactly opposite things at many points during the whole situation.

So in other words, as more information becomes available, he has shifted as he has learned more about coronavirus. Science is like that, Just like how now, getting gut shot isn't the death sentence it was in 1862.

[Sieben]

DonH58, cite your sources! 12K people died from the COVID vaccine? Sure. You can't just post a pretty table and a lot of unsupported data off the internet and expect people to believe it. Well, perhaps you can.

RangerJoe, people died in Indonesia from taking the Chinese vaccine? Now I'm really worried, since I've already had the Moderna.

MrsWargamer, thank you for the polite reply. I actually allowed myself to get involved in a discussion of the same topic on this forum, spring of last year. What happened to Curtis Lemay and his oft-posted assurance that the case mortality rate for COVID would be in the 10% range? I and several others tried to educate him in the proper use of statistics, to no avail. For my effort I was accused of "shaking my d***" (exhibiting superior learning). In the US, the rate is currently 1.7% based on the limited data available to the public, 1.3% in my semi-rural state.

Now, I bid you farewell and take back my previous comment. This forum isn't a Looney Tune, it's Cloud Cuckoo Land.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

Since this is primary a gaming forum, it's like Dungeon & Dragon's:

What's your Constitution score?
Do you have any spells to cast?

Make your Saving Throw, or die. Or worse, Paralyzed.

[balto]

Aurelian, thank you for citing Yahoo. You have shared the source of your wisdom.

I wish I could write as well as Sieben, that is what my post was meant to say.., but whatever.

[JWW]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: Gilmer

I'm vaccinated. And there is a lot of misinformation on both sides. Fauci has contributed to this because there are verified videos and everything of him say exactly opposite things at many points during the whole situation.

So in other words, as more information becomes available, he has shifted as he has learned more about coronavirus. Science is like that, Just like how now, getting gut shot isn't the death sentence it was in 1862.

Since the thread is continuing, surprisingly, though I would jump in.

As background, my wife and I are both over 65 with co-morbidities. I work out regularly and hard but still have the co-morbidities. Anyway, we both got the vaccine early and both firmly believe in its effectiveness despite the recent news, some of which was greatly sensationalized, ironically by the likes of New York Times and Washington Post.

I also have a phone app covid passport, an option offered by my state as an add on to an optional drivers license/ID phone app. I'm not afraid of covid passports.

I'm iffy on mitigation strategies though because science experts do not agree on them. And in the US I think the panic reaction last week by the Centers for Disease Control probably broke what was left of America's trust in the experts and science. Vaccinated people don't need to mask. Oh wait, yes you do. Too many flip flops to often. It doesn't matter if it was justified. Too much pontificating and saying they know it all before they do another flop.

You are correct that Fauci has changed his story as he has learned more, which a good scientist would. But those who say he never said most people didn't need masks are wrong. He did say it way back in early 2020. https://youtu.be/PRa6t_e7dgI

Another one of our problems in America is that he was set up as the god king of covid science, and he seemed to enjoy the role too much in my view. And too many of our experts have aligned themselves politically with one side or the other rather than remaining neutral and objective.

And in America EVERYTHING about covid has been politicized from the start. When our former president imposed travel bans from China and Italy in Feb 2020 he was viciously attacked by the other party as a xenophobe for doing early what has now become the norm in most nations, i.e., travel restrictions. And it has been blatantly political from both sides from that point on and both sides have made big mistakes along the way and continue to do so.

Then there is the matter of the origin of the virus, the two main theories being that it originated naturally or that it escaped from the Wuhan lab. And for nearly a year anyone suggesting the latter was attacked as somehow anti-Asian/anti-China and often banned from Facebook and Twitter and other social media, until suddenly it was okay to suggest that possibility. Another reason for Americans if not others around the world to distrust big tech as well as the media and government.

I believe it is critical to fully understanding the virus to understand its origins. For political reasons, we will likely never know the truth.

And we can never know from our politicians and media and big tech what the facts are.

[ThomasJay]

ORIGINAL: ElvisJJonesRambo

I have faith in the Lord of Hosts, that my time has not come, yet. The wages of sin is death, when the Master calls, then I will go.

Reminds me of the Katrina joke where the man refuses to evacuate when a boat comes to rescue him because the Lord is his protector and the storm is media hype anyway. Same thing when the helicopter comes. After he drowns and gets to the pearly gates he asks why the Lord would let such a faithful servant drown. "Fool we sent you a boat and helicopter!"

Just substitute vaccine for boat

[springel]

ORIGINAL: jwarrenw13

And we can never know from our politicians and media and big tech what the facts are.

You are right. But with a rational population people would do the right thing anyway. Oh wait.

- Masks do help (a little bit)
- The chance of medical harm from covid is vastly larger than that from a vaccine, except for a few people with certain conditions
- if you catch covid and don't get harmed, you are still helping the disease to spread and harm others

All good behaviour will mostly beneficial for others, but that seems to have no value for a lot of selfish bastards.

[RFalvo69]

Back when I enlisted in the Navy (1988) one of the mandatory courses was "Earth Sciences". I still have the 400 pages manual we had to study. One day our instructor said: "Climate Change is going to be bad. Pity that it will be politicised."

And we looked at each other. "Politicized?" How can you "politicise" a scientific problem? I guess that there will be dissent inside the scientific community, but increased fires or heavy weather phenomena are not tied to political thinking!

That grew old fast.

Around 2017 I happened to read "The Great Influenza" by John M. Barry, about the Spanish Flu of 1918-19. While, once that pandemic started, there was nothing to do to stop it, I was amazed by how much it was helped by public ignorance and political interference. Almost no one listened to science. Masks, surprise!, were "against freedom". Doctors pleaded the various political organs to stop "War Parades" amid a pandemic. They were labeled as "against the morale" (the then sobriquet for "unpatriotic").

The result were events like the unfamous "Liberty Loan Parade" that was held in Philadelphia on Sept, 28th 1918 - when the pandemic was already so raging that the Army had cancelled the next draft call. Medical authorities of any kind implored for the parade to be cancelled. "No, because it was politically 'against the morale'". Some implored the newspaper editors to publish warnings or, at least, basic suggestions about how to protect yourself if you attended the parade. No one published anything.

Two days after the parade people literally started falling ill in the street. The result was one of the biggest superspreader events in history. Hospitals in the city were so crowded that they began refusing new patients. Sick people queued anyway outside the doors.

Colonel Charles Hagadorn, commander of Camp Grant, had ignored the medical guidelines for the Army and packed his barracks with young men. On Oct, 8th he read the latest casualty bulletin and committed suicide.

"Soon the daily death toll from influenza alone would exceed the city’s average weekly death toll from all causes—all illnesses, all accidents, all criminal acts combined." (from my Kindle edition of the book).

The Director of the Philadelphia Department of Public Health and Charities, Dr. Wilmer Krusen, a political appointee who hadn't acted against the parade ("There is no danger" were his exact words), assured that "There is no need to get frightened or panic stricken over exaggerated reports." (Sounds familiar?)

And this was happening while all the aforementioned normal illnesses, accidents and people injured in criminal acts still happened. Doctors and nurses were ran to the ground.

And then doctors and nurses started to become ill too. And to die. At the Philadelphia General Hospital, eight doctors and fifty-four nurses became sick. Ten nurses died. Fear and panic started to pervade the health-workers too.

Did all the above stopped other "Liberty Loan Parades"? Or, when the (infected) Army returned home, "Victory Parades"?

No, of course not.

So, I was reading all of this, in the sunny days of 2017, and thinking: "I'm not saying that our ancestors were stupid. No. They never are. However, the level of education was lower, the way pathogens acted was still not completely understood. An enemy with a rifle is a clear and present danger... a virus... who knows? Luckily, today we can readily inform ourselves should something like this happen! Medical science made many strides in a Century! After all, we dodged the SARS and MERS bullets, didn't we?"

And that became old very fast.

Masks are "political"???

Asking for proof of vaccination before allowing some specific activity during a pandemic is political???

In March 2020, while this pandemic raging out of control, The Governor of Florida, DeSantis, lifted all the medical mandates in his state during Spring Break, causing a superspreader event and the appearance of some variants. But if I say "And he still has his job?" I risk to get this thread locked because, for some reason... uh... "Debating this it's political".

The USA, most infamously, in 2020 had 25% of the COVID deaths in the whole World with only 4% of the population. But any serious analysis of why this happened becomes political.

I can see Sicily burning from here. The fires near Catania cause a black cloud visible during the day. During the night the horizon is faintly glowing. Another cloud, this one greyish, is faintly visible. That's Palermo.

Sardinia is burning. Marche and Abruzzo are burning.

Siberia is burning. Canada burned. Australia burned. Cyprus and Greece burned. Turkey, Spain, Oregon and California are burning.

But if I try to start a discourse about Climate Change [screech]"that's political!!"[/screech] My old teacher nailed it.

One day a cockroach will teach to little cockroaches: "First there were the dinosaurs, but an asteroid too care of them. Then human beings, but, sadly, their brain wattage was not enough to really endure. Now it's our turn!"

And good luck to them.

[ElvisJJonesRambo]

LOL, Global Warming is not a problem. Well, until after the I calculate ~150,000,000 people outta of the world's total 7,000,000,000 leave.