Are Panzer Campaigns by HPI Sims any good?
Moderator: maddog986
Originally posted by Swamp_Yankee
If I were you I'd save my cash and wait for Battlefields. It's my opinion that the Pzr Campaign games play poorly. This is based on my purchase of "Fulda Gap 85" which is a modified version of the same engine. A typical turn is move or shoot your unit, then wait an interminable period while the computer resolves op and return fire for enemy units, ONE AT A TIME, and slowly at that. Then on to your next unit, shoot or move, wait, and repeat for every one of your units. In a big game you'll be pulling your hair out waiting. I'm paraphrasing a Gomputer Gaming World review of one of the Pzr Campaign games, but it was essentially "Ok, my 432 men shot at your 579 men, hitting 9, yours shot back hiiting 11 of my men, can we hurry? I've got 98 other units to move". I agree with that assesment. Your tastes may differ, but I ended up hating Fulda. Battlefields! promises to reinvigorate that scale of gaming, and is due out this spring, so my 2 cents says wait for it.
While I will agree, the scale of the game as I have said before is not to everyones taste, and I firmly believe that is the underlying problem with many people not liking them. Then you go onto the other side of the fence in which people like me once have become accostemed to this actually enjoy it.
Now one of your critisms was aimed at their shoot and move concept. Forgive me here, but surely I cant see much difference between this and the vast majority of computor wargames on the market, isnt that what its all about? shoot and move . Obviously this statement is ground down to the basics, but thats what most games of this ilk are. Even the forthcoming Matrix version of the Korsun Pocket will be in essence shoot and move.
You also go on to state about the time involved, well you are correct in this, it again linked to the scale of the game can be offputting to many, but again should be put down to personnal preference rather than a flaw.
Originally posted by Cyrus Coe
Swamp_Yankee - I believe that problem has been solved in the latest upgrades (to all, not just the Modern Campaigns) where combat results are speeded up immensely. You may want to check the HPS website for the latest patches.
BTW - slamming one company on another company's website is really in poor taste, guys. In fact, I surprised a Moderator (this place is moderated, right?) hasn't jumped in and said something. To me, that doesn't reflect too well on Matrix.
I do beleive you are being a bit sensitive on this issue, SY was simply giving his opinion which was asked for by the original poster. I see the beauty of asking for an opinion on another companies boards the best way to get an unbiased opinion. If the original poster had asked on say the Blitz's PZC boards he would have probably got an overwhelming biased of positive feedback. A bit like going to the Matix UV board and asking if UV is any good.
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Fallschirmjager
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Originally posted by Cyrus Coe
BTW - slamming one company on another company's website is really in poor taste, guys. In fact, I surprised a Moderator (this place is moderated, right?) hasn't jumped in and said something. To me, that doesn't reflect too well on Matrix.
I asked for an opinion on the series...they gave that to me.
We should be allowed to talk about games we like and do not like on these forums.
They do cost money after all....
Companies should be prasied for good products and beat down for bad ones.
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SwampYankee68
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This is what it's about
Originally posted by Pawlock
While I will agree, the scale of the game as I have said before is not to everyones taste, and I firmly believe that is the underlying problem with many people not liking them. Then you go onto the other side of the fence in which people like me once have become accostemed to this actually enjoy it.
Now one of your critisms was aimed at their shoot and move concept. Forgive me here, but surely I cant see much difference between this and the vast majority of computor wargames on the market, isnt that what its all about? shoot and move . Obviously this statement is ground down to the basics, but thats what most games of this ilk are. Even the forthcoming Matrix version of the Korsun Pocket will be in essence shoot and move.
You also go on to state about the time involved, well you are correct in this, it again linked to the scale of the game can be offputting to many, but again should be put down to personnal preference rather than a flaw.
This post is what it's about Cyrus. I gave an OPINION, identified as such several times in my post, and Pawlock disagrees with me. That's HIS opinion. We each have a right to our own, and especially to openly express them when ASKED FOR THEM. The HPS Pzr Campaign games are just not my cup of tea. Having spent my money on one (not to mention the SB games I have bought from them) IMO gives me even more of a right to be a critic, pro or con.
Now, I didn't mean to "hurt" you with the 3 post comment, it was meant to illustrate that you can't rationally form an opinion on what is accepted behavior on Matrix boards with such limited experience - capiche'? Honest heartfelt opinions on ANY GAME or for that matter any subject are permitted here. If that offends you for your own safety, stay out of the AOW forums!!!
Now Pawlock, yes, I understand your point, but that handling of op and return fire just starts to grate on me. I stopped playing the Campaign series by Talonsoft (RIP) for much the same reason (I'm aware of the connection BTW). I much prefer the way the SB games handle it more fluidly. Different scale, I realize, but something like that seems better. For that matter the V4V games did a better job too. We'll see how Battlefields does.
If I don't like it and someone asks, I'll tell them here or on whatever forum board they ask. It's great that these boards are free both in price and in obtrusive "moderation". Why, Cyrus, would you WANT an honest opinion to be moderated on anyone's boards.
"The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to let them shoot holes in me!"
I personally do not care for Panzer Campaign games. I am however a fan of turn based wargames, these games just didnt do it for me.
"Money doesnt talk, it swears. Obscenities, who really cares?" -Bob Dylan
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
"Habit is the balast that chains a dog to it's vomit." -Samuel Becket
"He has weapons of mass destruction- the world's deadliest weapons- which pose a direct threat to the
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Frank W.
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Originally posted by Swamp_Yankee
If I were you I'd save my cash and wait for Battlefields. It's my opinion that the Pzr Campaign games play poorly. This is based on my purchase of "Fulda Gap 85" which is a modified version of the same engine. A typical turn is move or shoot your unit, then wait an interminable period while the computer resolves op and return fire for enemy units, ONE AT A TIME, and slowly at that. Then on to your next unit, shoot or move, wait, and repeat for every one of your units. In a big game you'll be pulling your hair out waiting. I'm paraphrasing a Gomputer Gaming World review of one of the Pzr Campaign games, but it was essentially "Ok, my 432 men shot at your 579 men, hitting 9, yours shot back hiiting 11 of my men, can we hurry? I've got 98 other units to move". I agree with that assesment. Your tastes may differ, but I ended up hating Fulda. Battlefields! promises to reinvigorate that scale of gaming, and is due out this spring, so my 2 cents says wait for it.
i must say i was somewhat dissapointed too from the game.
and i had to order it for a quite high price as import
i thought it should be something like the old SSI game red lightning WP vs. NATO . but not quite, again:
but perhaps if i have to play it again some time.
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SwampYankee68
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Tombstone,
I'm hoping that Flashpoint Germany does the trick, but there sure is a dirth of modern wargames out there. Matrix has said that the may do modern versions of Combat Leader and Close Assault, that would be cool. As far as modern wargames go, I haven't enjoyed anything as much as Mech Brigade so many years ago. I'd love to see something the scale of Red Lightning tried again.
I'm deffinately going to try Flash Germany.
With Fulda, it was the engine more than anything else that hurt the game - excuse me- disclaimer here - IMHO :p
I'm hoping that Flashpoint Germany does the trick, but there sure is a dirth of modern wargames out there. Matrix has said that the may do modern versions of Combat Leader and Close Assault, that would be cool. As far as modern wargames go, I haven't enjoyed anything as much as Mech Brigade so many years ago. I'd love to see something the scale of Red Lightning tried again.
I'm deffinately going to try Flash Germany.
With Fulda, it was the engine more than anything else that hurt the game - excuse me- disclaimer here - IMHO :p
"The only way I got to keep them Tigers busy is to let them shoot holes in me!"
Friends,
As one of the few masochists attempting a PzC Normandy campaign (the 750 turn monster), and having played 4 of the five games in the series, I must say that PATIENCE is the key to enjoying the PzC series. There's an awful lot of "logistics" involved -- basically sorting out traffic jams and moving support units forward. I think "Bulge" was the most enjoyable as far as balance and gameplay, but Kharkov is also good.
The optional rules can be used to speed up the play significantly, btw.
Overall -- I reccommend PzC titles if you're willing to put up with the very realistic tedium inherent in operational command.
As one of the few masochists attempting a PzC Normandy campaign (the 750 turn monster), and having played 4 of the five games in the series, I must say that PATIENCE is the key to enjoying the PzC series. There's an awful lot of "logistics" involved -- basically sorting out traffic jams and moving support units forward. I think "Bulge" was the most enjoyable as far as balance and gameplay, but Kharkov is also good.
The optional rules can be used to speed up the play significantly, btw.
Overall -- I reccommend PzC titles if you're willing to put up with the very realistic tedium inherent in operational command.
"That's what we was doin'!"