Thank you Matrix, for no DRM

[NefariousKoel]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

Buying a game from Steam is simply buying from an online store though. You need an account to buy and download the game...that in itself isn't really DRM. If it required you to connect each time, then I would agree. But it doesn'tas far as I'm aware.

Steam is DRM, plain and simple.

It also prevents you from selling/trading your game in a secondary market. Games that require Steam to run has an online requirement to tie it to your account. That's DRM. In that example, you're also required to install a program that runs in the background and requires the use of the internet while leaving a potential security hole open. In some cases it restricts modifications of the files.

I've seen some die-hard defenders of Steam and they seem as brainwashed as a Jonestown citizen. I don't think you're quite one of those, but when I see them start championing how their patches are automatically downloaded, I can only [8|] at how much of the Kool-Aid they've drank. The down sides are often justified because they've "never had a problem with it" though I've seen many who've changed their tune after they did and their blinders came off.

[Arctic Blast]

This discussion again? Really?

Some people don't like any DRM, and that's fine. Some are willing to accept certain brands of it, and that's fine. Some flat out don't care, and that's fine.

The original poster makes a nice statement of appreciation, but that once again is transformed in to yet another back and forth between the same people with the same positions on the same thing. Utterly pointless.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast
...but that once again is transformed in to yet another back and forth between the same people with the same positions on the same thing. Utterly pointless.

lol Arctic. At least you showed some use of the auld noggin.

I hang my head in shame at taking part in another "Steam was made by the devil" - "Steam was made by God" debate [&o]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

This discussion again? Really?

Some people don't like any DRM, and that's fine. Some are willing to accept certain brands of it, and that's fine. Some flat out don't care, and that's fine.

The original poster makes a nice statement of appreciation, but that once again is transformed in to yet another back and forth between the same people with the same positions on the same thing. Utterly pointless.

Warspite1

Thank-you to everyone who bothered to answer my very newbie question about what a DRM is (I thought I may get laughed at for not knowing!!).

You may have found this thread utterly pointless Arctic Blast - sorry about that - but I for one found it useful thanks to the posters who tried to assist. If its been covered before, well, sorry about that too.....

[Arctic Blast]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

This discussion again? Really?

Some people don't like any DRM, and that's fine. Some are willing to accept certain brands of it, and that's fine. Some flat out don't care, and that's fine.

The original poster makes a nice statement of appreciation, but that once again is transformed in to yet another back and forth between the same people with the same positions on the same thing. Utterly pointless.

Warspite1

Thank-you to everyone who bothered to answer my very newbie question about what a DRM is (I thought I may get laughed at for not knowing!!).

You may have found this thread utterly pointless Arctic Blast - sorry about that - but I for one found it useful thanks to the posters who tried to assist. If its been covered before, well, sorry about that too.....

Really wasn't directed at you, Warspite, and apologies if you thought it was. You asked a legitimate question and were just looking for answers.

It just that it always tends to boil down to the same people shouting the same points at each other whenever someone does try to have an actual discussion on the topic.

[Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast
The original poster makes a nice statement of appreciation, but that once again is transformed in to yet another back and forth between the same people with the same positions on the same thing. Utterly pointless.

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast
It just that it always tends to boil down to the same people shouting the same points at each other whenever someone does try to have an actual discussion on the topic.

Ok……… I’ll bite


The original subject ’n point indeed was well deserved , one look at the my “joined” date shows I’m in agreement .

What I don’t get though is why you feel need to jump in and point out to everyone how “Utterly pointless” the subject and opinions being expressed are , no one was rude/shouting till you decided this thread wasn’t to your likening .

I don’t believe any thread stays on the original subject here in the general forum, but isn’t that the point…. ?

Talk about going off topic………[8|]

[Obsolete]

Starforce, Tages, Securom etc. - Never on my system.

I had a very terrible experience with Securom that took me days before I could get my title to work.  I had to spend many hours pouring over many forums, and checking with others who had the same problem.  Then talking to tech support, where I was given some generic answere as to it "must be a defective CD" and exchange it back at the store (where have I heard this excuse before?!)

Left to no options, I did that, yet my game still did not in stall.  Complained to tech support again, then I was notified the problem was most likely my DVD Drive now!  Apparently not all DVD readers are made by the same manufacturer (well no sh*t), and some do not work 100% reliability with securom (how convenient!).

I was not that desperate to run off again and purchase new hardware to solve a problem, when I knew that this also may not work either.

I spent another 2 days reading everything from bit-torrent to game-cracking.  Finally I found a nice site with many cracks, and thankfully it was all legit.  End of story, after going through hell and teaching myself a little bit about hacking games, I finally got my product to run. 

If Firaxis ends up using this again for Civ 5, I just don't see myself purchasing this and going through hell all over again.  Still same DVD drive here, so I'm going to need a crack regardless.  But this leaves a good question in the air, if I have to crack this title, what incentive is there for people to purchase the title in the first place?

To be honest, that is a very good question!  Perhaps someone could forward that inquiry to the Suits in management as I'd like to know myself.

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: Sarge




The original subject ’n point indeed was well deserved , one look at the my “joined” date shows I’m in agreement .

What I don’t get though is why you feel need to jump in and point out to everyone how “Utterly pointless” the subject and opinions being expressed are , no one was rude/shouting till you decided this thread wasn’t to your likening .

I don’t believe any thread stays on the original subject here in the general forum, but isn’t that the point…. ?

Talk about going off topic………[8|]

In complete agreement.


Arctic-

I'm not trying to pile on but if DRM screws up my PC I'm going to let people know about it at every opportunity so they don't get burned as well. If that ruffles a feather I can't help that, put me and other offenders on ignore if it's that bothersome.

[joeblack1862]

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

Starforce, Tages, Securom etc. - Never on my system.

But this leaves a good question in the air, if I have to crack this title, what incentive is there for people to purchase the title in the first place?

To be honest, that is a very good question!  Perhaps someone could forward that inquiry to the Suits in management as I'd like to know myself.

I am not being funny but the answer for me is simply that it is the right thing to do. If a game has securom on it then I don't play it, I don't install it. I don't own it (unless I bought it without realising).

A couple of examples. I wanted Bioshock 2 so bad, but then it came out with Securom. It will be cracked if it hasn't already but I have taken it off my list until a DRM Free version comes out (long wait I know). That's it.

I bought one of my favorite games, Rail Tychoon 3 on steam (no securom etc, just steam). It was only patched to 1.4. Version 1.5 has some extras that are worth having. So I took the 1.5 patch and applied it, play it outside steam. I still bought the game.

Sid Meiers Railroads. I bought that from GG. I installed it and put the Securom virus on my system. My fault. I irridicated it from my HD and have never installed the game since (RT3 is better anyway). Nor looked for a torrent of it.

By downloading torrents and installing games I don't own I will get bitten on the arse one day by the cracker or the provider installing a trojen etc. AND, I would not feel right about it anyway.

So many games out there, no problem finding another one to play. [:)]

[Arctic Blast]

My apologies, guys. Had a bit of a bad day yesterday, and that obviously transferred over to here. Sorry about that.

Do I welcome an actual discussion about DRM? Sure. It's just that all too often, said discussion seems to eventually boil down to battle lines practically being drawn and rhetoric spewed, and all semblance of discussion is completely lost. Hopefully that doesn't happen here. [:)]

[Southernland]

The Steam/empire totalwar combination is a totaldog.  The game is months old, fully patched and I'm still having oddball "lack of video memory" CTDs on a regular basis yet will need a full uninstall/reregistration/redownload/reinstall on a newer computer to see if there's a difference between machines that will resolve the issues.  Steam itself seems to have added 30-40 seconds to my startup time, in itself not a long time but maybe adding 30% to my startup for absolutely no benefit to me.  I've had the game for a week and I'm sick of it already... given a realworld situation I'd flick it off for a few bucks but because we're living in steam world I've only "leased" it in all its gloriousness so it'll gather dust and maybe stop coffee rings on my computer desk

[joeblack1862]

ORIGINAL: Zakhal
Im sure your case gets solved once you give it a little time. If not then please inform us so we know the dangers of buying from steam with paypal.

Steam has come back to me this evening, apologised and my money has been refunded. They said I can go ahead and purchase the game again if I wished. They recommended I carried out the purchase through the browser rather than the Steam app so there must be an issue there with Paypal transactions maybe? I thought this might be useful info for others to know.

I think I will use CC this time though! [:D]

Zakhal, thank you, I took your advice and shutup and waited and all went well.

The silver lining on the Cloud? I played Distant Worlds instead, what a game!

[JudgeDredd]

I don't understand the issue with Steam and Paypal...unless it's a new issue. I buy all of my Steam games using Paypal. Maybe it's been introduced in their new software (don't they have a BETA version out?)

Glad you got your dosh back, though I rather suspect you'd have preferred to be playing this weekend [:D]

[joeblack1862]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I don't understand the issue with Steam and Paypal...unless it's a new issue. I buy all of my Steam games using Paypal. Maybe it's been introduced in their new software (don't they have a BETA version out?)

Glad you got your dosh back, though I rather suspect you'd have preferred to be playing this weekend [:D]

Cheers JD, but then I wouldn't have got to play Distant Worlds [:)] so not all bad.

I think I may divert my cash to another matrix game, I can't say I am a big steam fan anyway. I tend to buy from them what I can't get elsewhere. Or in the last failed purchase I was looking at saving $6....

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I'm not entirely sure Steam is a method of DRM. I can play my Steam games offline...so there is no need to be connected afaik.

Exactly. I can play all of my single player games on Steam in offline mode, which I always do on the laptop because I'm without internet a lot on it. I like Steam for the same reason like I like Matrix. No CD needed to play.

[GoodGuy]

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I'm not entirely sure Steam is a method of DRM. I can play my Steam games offline...so there is no need to be connected afaik.

Exactly. I can play all of my single player games on Steam in offline mode, which I always do on the laptop because I'm without internet a lot on it. I like Steam for the same reason like I like Matrix. No CD needed to play.

Good point. But Steam still is a platform that can employ (and enforce) ANY DRM (unlike a pure digital distribution platform like say direct2drive or even Digital River), if the developer/publisher decides to go with a more restrictive copy protection, at any given point, this could even be enforced after the initial purchase/download.
Example: If a publisher feels that there are too many illegal copies floating around, significantly affecting sales, then they could enforce the mandatory use of a system like the one UBI seems to be using right now, for one or another game (which requires a permanent connection to the interent), via Steam-update.
So I think you could call Steam a DRM launch platform, at least, if there's such a word. [:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Arctic Blast

My apologies, guys. Had a bit of a bad day yesterday, and that obviously transferred over to here. Sorry about that.

Do I welcome an actual discussion about DRM? Sure. It's just that all too often, said discussion seems to eventually boil down to battle lines practically being drawn and rhetoric spewed, and all semblance of discussion is completely lost. Hopefully that doesn't happen here. [:)]

Warspite1

No probs Arctic Blast - we`ve all had those sort of days [;)]

[Widell]

While I realize I'm entering the holy wars here, I must still state that the comment "Steam still is a platform that can employ (and enforce) ANY DRM" still does not make Steam a DRM as was suggested earlier. Steam is distributing software, and the software may have different DRM's. Then Steam itself has an element of DRM to it just as Matrix has in their (very user friendly and hassle free and my favorite etc. Just to make my standpoint clear on that part[;)])

Then, whether you think Steam s*cks for different reasons, or you think it's OK or incredible or whatever is a different issue, but technically Matrix could also "employ (and enforce) ANY DRM" but they, thankfully, choose not to.

OK, taking cover for the inevitable (?)

[Erik Rutins]

Just as a reminder guys, this forum is not for bashing other resellers, publishers (or developers). Constructive criticism is perfectly acceptable, but let's keep things civil. If you really want to vent your spleen at another company, I suggest sending your comments directly to them to make sure they get them.

Many of our customers (and many of us) use these other resellers and publishers and like their games, so let's keep that in mind if you have criticisms to share.

On a more positive note, thank you for the vote of confidence in our serial number system. We at Matrix feel pretty strongly about this too and we are not in favor of more restrictive DRM systems. You have also confirmed our own beliefs and shown us that it's possible to trust your customers and have them return the favor with good sales and trust in return. We hope that never changes.

[ilovestrategy]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


You have also confirmed our own beliefs and shown us that it's possible to trust your customers and have them return the favor with good sales and trust in return. We hope that never changes.

Oh, you can count me in there Erik. [&o]