A message to Slitherine from the astute Tim Stone...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

Hey Budd, I tried to smooth things over and offer everyone a round of drinks about 9 posts ago. Seems sometimes the bar is just meant to be rowdy.

warspite1

Well I ordered a pint o' pish from you a couple of days back - still waiting....

[budd]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

Hey Budd, I tried to smooth things over and offer everyone a round of drinks about 9 posts ago. Seems sometimes the bar is just meant to be rowdy.

warspite1

Well I ordered a pint o' pish from you a couple of days back - still waiting....

You were cut off years ago..... weren't you?[:)]

[budd]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

Hey Budd, I tried to smooth things over and offer everyone a round of drinks about 9 posts ago. Seems sometimes the bar is just meant to be rowdy.

warspite1

Well I ordered a pint o' pish from you a couple of days back - still waiting....

You were cut off years ago..... weren't you?[:)] ...we had a meeting.

[Boomer78]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

Hey Budd, I tried to smooth things over and offer everyone a round of drinks about 9 posts ago. Seems sometimes the bar is just meant to be rowdy.

warspite1

Well I ordered a pint o' pish from you a couple of days back - still waiting....

I need a brand, buddy. Pish means *Shiloh* to me. I'm American. We only speak two languages, good English and bad English. [;)]

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

maybe we can move this discussion on to that other polarizing frequently discussed topic "pricing" ....sorry couldn't resist[:'(]

Like this one? tm.asp?m=3308906&mpage=1&key=tim%2Cstone

[Arnir]

I'll take a drink, thanks.

I think Matrix/Slitherine can defend themselves if they feel the need to do so. I'll do it for a wage, of course.

[budd]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: **budd**

maybe we can move this discussion on to that other polarizing frequently discussed topic "pricing" ....sorry couldn't resist[:'(]

Like this one? tm.asp?m=3308906&mpage=1&key=tim%2Cstone

Thats too funny, forgot about that one. Well that one was good for 5 pages we got a couple more to go.

[Aurelian]

To quote Ian from another thread:

1) Follow a business plan based on 13 years of running a successful company and over 20 years in the games industry.
2) Follow a business plan based on what a journalist and our fans (none of whom to my knowledge have ever made a game or run computer game publisher) suggest because we don't have the guts to follow our beliefs.
 
So much for what this rps says.

[Alchenar]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

To quote Ian from another thread:

1) Follow a business plan based on 13 years of running a successful company and over 20 years in the games industry.
2) Follow a business plan based on what a journalist and our fans (none of whom to my knowledge have ever made a game or run computer game publisher) suggest because we don't have the guts to follow our beliefs.

So much for what this rps says.

3) Follow business plan that close industry entities Battlefront and Paradox Interactive and which partners in the know (2x3 Games) follow.

You are talking about a company that literally can't start a sale on time because they belatedly realised they don't have anyone who understands databases (although they do appear to be trying to fix that). Do you understand how ridiculous that makes you sound?

[Zap]

@Alcenar your quote

You are talking about a company that literally can't start a sale on time because they belatedly realised they don't have anyone who understands databases (although they do appear to be trying to fix that). Do you understand how ridiculous that makes you sound?

Wow, what's with all the negative vibes? Do you dislike Matrix that much you want to ridicule them.
Concerning a sale? That's my take on your post. A lot of hate because Matrix Games is not following
what you think is a sure fire win /win business philosophy about demos!!!.
It seems to me your attempting to arm twist Matrix to accept your business philosophy. You lost me with your argument.

I have nothing but the highest regard for Matrix as a company and for the men and women who represent Matrix. I say that from the many dealings I have had with them over the years.

[Alchenar]

ORIGINAL: Zap

@Alcenar your quote

You are talking about a company that literally can't start a sale on time because they belatedly realised they don't have anyone who understands databases (although they do appear to be trying to fix that). Do you understand how ridiculous that makes you sound?

Wow, what's with all the negative vibes? Do you dislike Matrix that much you want to ridicule them.
Concerning a sale? That's my take on your post. A lot of hate because Matrix Games is not following
what you think is a sure fire win /win business philosophy about demos!!!.
It seems to me your attempting to arm twist Matrix to accept your business philosophy. You lost me with your argument.

I have nothing but the highest regard for Matrix as a company and for the men and women who represent Matrix. I say that from the many dealings I have had with them over the years.

You have this weird idea that I hate Matrix and I think that's you are confusing my contempt for the argumentative abilities of some people in this thread with contempt for them. I also have no idea how making a few reasonable arguments can possibly be characterised as 'arms twisting' unless you think I'm so obviously right that it would be publicly shameful to disagree with me.

Here's the thing: I want to give Matrix my money. I don't think I'm currently giving them enough of my money. The reasons I'm not giving them as much as my money as I'd like are mainly that I think the pricepoint for their products are too high and that I don't get a chance to demo their products before putting money down. Now Matrix can choose to do with my feedback as they like, but the only way they can know that customers like me exist is if we provide that feedback in the first place.

What I do like to do is mess with people who shrill (badly) on Matrix's behalf. It's ridiculous to claim that Matrix's business plan is unique and unchallengeable when literally all industry sources (whether broad digital distributors or small wargame self-publishers) reach the opposite conclusions on how to make money. It isn't even credible to claim that they're following the path they've set for themselves properly when in 2013 they somehow have to manually manage their database entries.

Matrix get to ignore feedback. That's their prerogative and I'm fine with that. I think the arguments themselves are interesting and worth having. What's odd to me is supposed 'fans' of Matrix trying to shout down customer feedback they don't like - because that's not how you help a small company you want to support.

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: Zap

@Alcenar your quote

You are talking about a company that literally can't start a sale on time because they belatedly realised they don't have anyone who understands databases (although they do appear to be trying to fix that). Do you understand how ridiculous that makes you sound?

Wow, what's with all the negative vibes? Do you dislike Matrix that much you want to ridicule them.
Concerning a sale? That's my take on your post. A lot of hate because Matrix Games is not following
what you think is a sure fire win /win business philosophy about demos!!!.
It seems to me your attempting to arm twist Matrix to accept your business philosophy. You lost me with your argument.

I have nothing but the highest regard for Matrix as a company and for the men and women who represent Matrix. I say that from the many dealings I have had with them over the years.

You're right! I've been dealing with Matrix since their inception, and I find them to be a bunch of stand up guys. You people that are looking for conspiracies better put on your "Tin Foil" hats.....

I don't agree with everything they do, but they have a business to run! It's not a not for profit enterprise!

[gradenko2k]

ORIGINAL: Zap
@Alcenar your quote

You are talking about a company that literally can't start a sale on time because they belatedly realised they don't have anyone who understands databases (although they do appear to be trying to fix that). Do you understand how ridiculous that makes you sound?

Wow, what's with all the negative vibes? Do you dislike Matrix that much you want to ridicule them.
Concerning a sale? That's my take on your post. A lot of hate because Matrix Games is not following
what you think is a sure fire win /win business philosophy about demos!!!.
It seems to me your attempting to arm twist Matrix to accept your business philosophy. You lost me with your argument.

I have nothing but the highest regard for Matrix as a company and for the men and women who represent Matrix. I say that from the many dealings I have had with them over the years.

It's not "his" business philosophy or the business philosophy of the OP or the business philosophy of Tim Stone, random internet writer, so much as it that of half a dozen other publishers, including the one with an extremely effective near-monopoly on PC gaming.

And yes, I'm sure that the next retort is going to be that ***wargames*** play by different economic rules and Paradox doesn't count because REASONS, but that still leaves a non-trivial section of Matrix's catalog as falling quite neatly into genres that are healthily represented on other digital distributors.

Fine, let the grognard games stew in their Habsburgian lineage, but do games like Pandora or Distant Worlds or Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager really deserve to be set apart from line-ups like Kerbal Space Program, Endless Space, Sins of a Solar Empire, Sword of the Stars or even Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri itself?

Because yeah, I get it, if the audience for an operational-level WWII turn-based strategy game is as insular as this one then I suppose that particular sub-genre is never going to escape from the retail equivalent of the Ottoman Kafes, but those tendrils need not extend their grasp to games that are mainstream and would benefit from established and contemporary marketing strategies.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Treale

ORIGINAL: Zap

@Alcenar your quote

You are talking about a company that literally can't start a sale on time because they belatedly realised they don't have anyone who understands databases (although they do appear to be trying to fix that). Do you understand how ridiculous that makes you sound?

Wow, what's with all the negative vibes? Do you dislike Matrix that much you want to ridicule them.
Concerning a sale? That's my take on your post. A lot of hate because Matrix Games is not following
what you think is a sure fire win /win business philosophy about demos!!!.
It seems to me your attempting to arm twist Matrix to accept your business philosophy. You lost me with your argument.

I have nothing but the highest regard for Matrix as a company and for the men and women who represent Matrix. I say that from the many dealings I have had with them over the years.

You're right! I've been dealing with Matrix since their inception, and I find them to be a bunch of stand up guys. You people that are looking for conspiracies better put on your "Tin Foil" hats.....

I don't agree with everything they do, but they have a business to run! It's not a not for profit enterprise!

Well an truly said. Both of you.

[Fred98]

I bought a Matrix wargame in March 2011 and a non-Matrix wargame in March 2009. That’s only 2 wargames in almost 5 years.

The web site of the March 2009 game looks poor and reads like a poor game but it has a demo and I got hooked!

Many wargames have potential. I follow the forum a bit and then decide its not for me. Some fans says “Its not as you think” but without a demo I cannot confirm that.

[danlongman]

This is obviously the fault of the Commies and their toadies the Democrats and all the leftists charlatans
who have been responsible for all the bad stuff since "bad" was invented. All that aside, if you buy a lot
of games you might possess some of this thing called "consumer clout" if you are one of the self-canonized few
who have bought three wargames in ten years your opinion counts for about 17 dollars. Wasn't it Lenin who said
"whatever the market will bear"? Or maybe Lennon.

[Fred98]

No its the other way around. If you buy lots of wargames the what is the point promoting them to people like yourself?

Instead the promotions - and demos - ought to be directed at people like me.

For example for me Strategic Commmand 3 is already dead in the water.