German government plans to destroy Gamer culture

[Perturabo]

So, let's start again.

I'm a Gamer, that's my cultural identity. I've been a Gamer since I was a kid - since I played my first computer game. It was Commando on Commodore C-64. I think it was when I was 5 year old. 20 years ago.
I love computer games and I love being a Gamer, most of my friends are people who are fellow Gamers. They are some of the best people I know.

Now, I learn that German government not only besmirches my beloved Culture and my fellow Gamers and paints us as mass murderer wannabes and censors released games but now also wants to completely destroy the Gamer culture .

http://www.edge-online.com/news/german- ... -games-ban

While I was offended by the slander of Gamers, now I'm enraged by the escalation of hostility and violence towards my fellow Gamers.
So, now they want to forbid us to be Gamers, they want to take our culture away, to destroy who we are.
I'm truly enraged and I won't sit back and watch this crime against Gamers.

More, German politicians have tried to export their anti-Gamer bigotry to whole European Union about two years ago.
If they'll succeed the anti-gaming extremists will have greater chances to destroy Gaming in Europe.

That's why actions needs to be taken. Not only because of fellow Gamers from Germany, but also, because it's a threat towards Gamers in whole EU.

Luckily, there's a chance to stop the enemy from attacking our Culture.
Germany's economy happens to be export-orientated - I bet it would suffer if gamers would drastically limit their purchases of export goods.

Maybe even just a threat of such boycott could lead to end of hostilities.

Anyway, such an attack on Gaming cannot be left without response.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
my beloved Culture

How about you go take a couple of your pills that help you calm down? The idea behind the proposed legislation is merely to limit the amount of gratuitous violence that can be displayed. I guess you would be offended if you're a blood, gore and guts freak, but I have no problem with it.

To be Frank, I find that kind of "game" ridiculous, anyway. Even if my name isn't Frank. And I am neither one of the Franks nor an American "hot dog."

[E]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm a Gamer, that's my cultural identity.

If being a gamer is your cultural identity, you've got serious problems.

[Perturabo]

Gore is censored in Germany since a long time ago. Now they are after violence, like in games about "killing" people, for example Counter Strike. Hell, they even banned paint-ball.

And they shouldn't be able to tell anyone how much gore there can be in games anyway.

[Anthropoid]

Did those links work for you? I couldn't even figure out what the story was.

[Perturabo]

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm a Gamer, that's my cultural identity.

If being a gamer is your cultural identity, you've got serious problems.

Why? So, what should be my cultural identity? Maybe it should be based on as random place when I was born? Maybe it should be based on some random people who live there and with whom I don't have much in common?

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Did those links work for you? I couldn't even figure out what the story was.

The one in this topic works for me.

[Anthropoid]

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm a Gamer, that's my cultural identity.

If being a gamer is your cultural identity, you've got serious problems.

Ummm . . . You have 133 posts, and you are responding to this thread. I'd say "being a gamer" is part of your culture too E.

ADDIT: that is a very short article. I suppose my take on it is: it depends on what they define as "violent." Even a game like WiTP or TOAWIII or Commander: Europe at War involves "violence." You move little symbols around on a map, and they engage in "combat" with other little symbols, and suffer casualties and maybe even get sunk/destroyed/killed. That sure as heck ain't peace and brotherly love that is being modeled in almost ANY of these games, its violence.

So, if we are talking about games that are just nothing but blood and gore fests (are there such games? what are they?) that do not involve any redeeming features, then maybe these would-be censors have a leg to stand on. But I doubt that is where they will stop if they get their way. Censors always seem to have expanding horizons in mind when they start to impose their particular sense of propriety on the rest of us.

I tend toward the conclusion that these developments are never good for any of us gamers, no matter what kind of imaginative play we like to engage in.

[V22 Osprey]

heh...Germany is only doing this to show to the world that they are not violent nazis and trying to conquer and kill people anymore.After all they did start 2 World Wars.

[Jim D Burns]

You can claim violent games have nothing to do with school shootings, but the fact remains, that since about 1988 violence at schools in the form of mass shootings is a relatively new sort of crime hardly ever seen before. There isn't really a lot you can attribute this to other than movies, television and games becoming more and more violent over the years.

http://www2.indystar.com/library/factfi ... tings.html

I personally doubt if violent video games are the only thing responsible, rather it is more likely that western culture has become more desensitized to violent action over the past 30 years or so due to many factors. In the 50s people would have been horrified by mass shootings at schools, today people get titillated by them to some degree.

More and more violence in film and in games are a big part of the reason, but on a whole this increase in violence as entertainment is/has been accepted by most western societies. Violence in the news is an almost daily event today and the dumbing down of our cultures with reality shows that highlight danger and thrill situations are probably more responsible for our desensitization than games are in my opinion.

Now what prompts people to take these kind of mass killing actions probably has more to do with fame and notoriety than with video game or film violence. If the news refused to cover these killings and the people who committed the acts were left to rot in jail alone and unknown, there would be far fewer acts like these than we see.

But western culture celebrates these acts with intense 24/7 news coverage followed by documentaries and made for TV movies, all of which glorify the acts and those who commit them to some degree and motivate others to want to achieve similar stature and notoriety.

Can we go back by passing laws that outlaw violence in games and film? Possibly if everything is treated the same across the board and the laws are enforced long enough for society to slowly change back. But the film and news industry has a powerful lobby and the game industry does not, so only the games will be outlawed.

So more than likely this experiment will fail when they see no discernable decrease in violent acts once they outlaw the games. Eventually the law will be rescinded and then they'll have precedent to point to that it doesn't work and they'll no longer attempt to turn back the clock like this again.

Jim

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

Gore is censored in Germany since a long time ago. Now they are after violence, like in games about "killing" people, for example Counter Strike. Hell, they even banned paint-ball.

Gore was almost elected president in the United States.

How about you state specifically what it is you find objectionable rather than just ranting and raving? What prohibitions exactly are proposed? Are they law yet? If not, what good does it do to carry on about it here, when it is only within the mechanisms of your own political process that your voice can be heard to any practical effect.

All you could hope for here would be for your PM to be banned from posting on the forums...

And they shouldn't be able to tell anyone how much gore there can be in games anyway.

Well. I guess you think like us lawyers, who believe, in all circumstances, that more is better.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
once they outlaw the games.

Jim, old scout, the idea is only, as I understand it, to stop the graphic depictions of people being turned into a thin, red paste. "Game banning" does not seem to be on the horizon, as far as I can tell.

[Jim D Burns]

Well in the short article I read that he linked above, they discussed a game company having to outsource their development house or leave the country all together. That sounds like more than just erasing some blood spatter in their games to me. But I could be wrong of course, as I've seen no detailed discussion of the actual proposed law as yet.

Jim

[Anthropoid]

I think you are quite right Jim, and the desensitization is being mediated by a wide array of pop cultural experiences and mass media. Games are an easy scapegoat as gamer culture is not a particularly powerful force. Cable TV culture on the other hand, try imposing similar standards on cable TV; would never happen.

[E]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

ORIGINAL: E

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

I'm a Gamer, that's my cultural identity.

If being a gamer is your cultural identity, you've got serious problems.

Ummm . . . You have 133 posts, and you are responding to this thread. I'd say "being a gamer" is part of your culture too E.

Avoiding the non-sequitur, gaming is not my cultural identity. It is a pastime/entertainment. If it ever becomes my cultural identity it's time to quit and seek help.

[Fred98]

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

heh...Germany is only doing this to show to the world that they are not violent nazis and trying to conquer and kill people anymore.After all they did start 2 World Wars.

They didn't start WW1

[V22 Osprey]

ORIGINAL: Joe 98

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

heh...Germany is only doing this to show to the world that they are not violent nazis and trying to conquer and kill people anymore.After all they did start 2 World Wars.

They didn't start WW1

Well they were still killing and conquering weren't they?

Anyway, this is getting off topic.I was just saying why they are banning violent games, like how they banned swastikas from WWII games.

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
the desensitization is being mediated by a wide array of pop cultural experiences and mass media

I could listen to you for hours ...

[knilli]

i love computergames too and my native language is german. so what? i can not and i do not see the problem? i could play my favourite games in the past and i will be able to play them in the future.
if you play ww2 games on the computer and you bought them in germany/austria, certain symbols and appreviation won't be shown because it is against the law. does it minimise the game experience? i do not think so. of course it is annoying if the correct names are not used (especially if you are a grognard)...but as long as the game is playable and fun...
in the past certain games did not show human enemies, they showed bots and did not display blood. who cares what color the splash is, as long as you win!
and as far as i am informed, it is mainly directed against ego shooters and games where you can rape and where the only game goal is to inflict as much pain as possible...(i can not think of the name of the game, but it was mainly trashing npc with baseball bats and that was the game)
i do not see one game in the matrix store which would be affected by those proposals. as for matrix, with all there ww2 games, they have to obey german/austrian law anyway.

[Terminus]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

ORIGINAL: Perturabo
my beloved Culture

How about you go take a couple of your pills that help you calm down? The idea behind the proposed legislation is merely to limit the amount of gratuitous violence that can be displayed. I guess you would be offended if you're a blood, gore and guts freak, but I have no problem with it.

To be Frank, I find that kind of "game" ridiculous, anyway. Even if my name isn't Frank. And I am neither one of the Franks nor an American "hot dog."

I thought your name was Sue... Life ain't easy for a boy named Sue...[;)]

[Randomizer]

This argument is a tempest in a teacup.  Life imitating art...
 
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/hot_new_video_game_consists
 
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/are_violent_video_games
 
Oh and the prototypical school shooter was probably Charles Whitmen who's 1966 massacre even pre-dated Pong...
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman
 
Best Regards