Game mechanics questions (standoff, relocate, resupply)

[JacquesDeLalaing]

Thanks for your answers, WABAC!

1. What is the "stance" (protection, visibility, etc) of a unit that has a move order but has not yet started to move (receiving/processing orders or on intentional delay)? In other words: Is a unit exposed during order delay?

They remain as they were until they start to move. You can see this during turn resolution.

But from my observation infantry immediately mounts its APCs and immediately gets more vulnerable and visible? Which usually means if infantry tries to move (even from good cover), it is dead.

9. Suppressive fire missions by artillery: It is not clear whether this order works inherently differently from the neutralization missions? I suppose that suppressive missions are not guided by spotters onto individual, spotted subunits in the target hex? And suppressive fire missions last longer and thus trigger the "under fire" status to enemy units in the hex for a longer duration, which temporarily decreases their combat power (chance to fire? fire accuracy? spotting? duration/ability to call in artillery?)?

Actually it is quite clear. Unless you have changed the option, you see a screen that allows you to fine tune your fire mission after you commit. The difference between suppression and neutralization is the number of shells poured into the area over a given period of time. At the very least, a generic suppression mission degrades morale and readiness which are major factors in the resolution of items on your list, except for calling in artillery.

Not sure what you mean by "subunits" but one of the devs has commented that observation helps.

So it's just the number of shells, nothing else? In general, I find it very hard to evaluate the effect or artillery (other than causing actual losses to the enemy).

I know that units can have the "under fire" status, which I suppose reduces their hitchances somewhat (maybe those of some units more than others, also depending on cover and preparedness?). So a suppressive fire over a longer period of time would bestow that malus on the targeted unit for a longer period of time? But if you chose too few shells then the effect is smaller/not reliable? It's all guesswork. It would really be very helpfull if there was some rough official explanation for how suppression by artillery fire is supposed to work and what the most important factors are.

Also, does suppressive fire still benefit from spotters? I've read somewhere else in this forum that if a target is spotted in the target hex, then the spotter directs the artillery onto that target, which means that even small targets (e.g. a single tank) can be hit. Without a spotter, you'd be extremely lucky to hit the tank in the 500x500m hex. Does the same apply to suppressive fire, or are shells evenly spaced out, regardless of spotted enemy units?

And then there is the loss of readiness for units under artillery fire. But the loss of effectiveness seems extremely small to me.

10. Smoke: What's the height of smoke? Do I need to place smoke BETWEEN my positions and the enemy positions or does it also work if I put smoke directly ON the postions?

Never worried about the height. Have observed that it is only good for one level of terrain. Smoke on your own position will eventually attract AI artillery. A human will react quicker. Smoke also works between you and them. It's very nice when you have them stacked up at a minefield.

Still I wonder where I have to put the smoke. IN BETWEEN units or ON units? I've just had a TOW ATGM annihilate a tank company of mine. Both the shooting unit and the target units had smoke directly on their hex.

I also wonder if ATGMs benefit from thermal imaging if the vehicle (not the ATGM itself) is equipped with the thermal optics...?

[WABAC]

But from my observation infantry immediately mounts its APCs and immediately gets more vulnerable and visible? Which usually means if infantry tries to move (even from good cover), it is dead.

That's why you need to think about where you send them.

So it's just the number of shells, nothing else? In general, I find it very hard to evaluate the effect or artillery (other than causing actual losses to the enemy).

Do you think it works that way in real life? Just number of shells? The weight of the metal and the weight of the bursting charge are also factors. So is the incoming angle.That's why mortars are hated, they drop right into your dug-in position.

Maybe Iron Mike Golf wants to write a long dissertation on this. Maybe it will be covered in the documentation Capt. Darwin is working on when he isn't chasing bugs. But I suggest you do a little research with google. Governments have done lots of research on this topic. And lots of it is out there for anyone to read for free. For starters:

https://www.google.com/search?channel=f ... ssive+fire

If all you need is a recipe, just use the default numbers.

Also, does suppressive fire still benefit from spotters? I've read somewhere else in this forum that if a target is spotted in the target hex, then the spotter directs the artillery onto that target, which means that even small targets (e.g. a single tank) can be hit. Without a spotter, you'd be extremely lucky to hit the tank in the 500x500m hex. Does the same apply to suppressive fire, or are shells evenly spaced out, regardless of spotted enemy units?

What is the real-life situation the devs are trying to capture here? Ask yourself why spotters would not make a difference.

Still I wonder where I have to put the smoke. IN BETWEEN units or ON units? I've just had a TOW ATGM annihilate a tank company of mine. Both the shooting unit and the target units had smoke directly on their hex.

Which side are you playing? Who has thermal sights, and who does not? What is the range?

I also wonder if ATGMs benefit from thermal imaging if the vehicle (not the ATGM itself) is equipped with the thermal optics...?

Do you know that TOW are wire-guided by the operator that pulled the trigger? The sight is on the vehicle or portable system.There is no sight on the missile.

[JacquesDeLalaing]

But from my observation infantry immediately mounts its APCs and immediately gets more vulnerable and visible? Which usually means if infantry tries to move (even from good cover), it is dead.

That's why you need to think about where you send them.

I just don't think it's particularly realistic that infantry cannot retreat from hexes that offer excellent concealment. Why does the infantry expose its APCs when it it ought to rereat backwards, into the wood, for example?

So it's just the number of shells, nothing else? In general, I find it very hard to evaluate the effect or artillery (other than causing actual losses to the enemy).

Do you think it works that way in real life? Just number of shells?

No, I don't. That's why I am asking. I want to know what is happening in the game. And apparently noone knows the ingame difference between suppressive and neutralization fire.

But I suggest you do a little research with google. Governments have done lots of research on this topic.

But it doesn't tell me how it is working in the game. FSS is a game.

Also, does suppressive fire still benefit from spotters? I've read somewhere else in this forum that if a target is spotted in the target hex, then the spotter directs the artillery onto that target, which means that even small targets (e.g. a single tank) can be hit. Without a spotter, you'd be extremely lucky to hit the tank in the 500x500m hex. Does the same apply to suppressive fire, or are shells evenly spaced out, regardless of spotted enemy units?

What is the real-life situation the devs are trying to capture here? Ask yourself why spotters would not make a difference.

Again, this doesn't help explain the game.

Still I wonder where I have to put the smoke. IN BETWEEN units or ON units? I've just had a TOW ATGM annihilate a tank company of mine. Both the shooting unit and the target units had smoke directly on their hex.

Which side are you playing? Who has thermal sights, and who does not? What is the range?

I'd just like to know in general - from a gameplay point of view - on the most basic level: AM I SUPPOSED TO PUT THE SMOKE IN BETWEEN UNITS OR DIRECTLY ON UNITS?

I also wonder if ATGMs benefit from thermal imaging if the vehicle (not the ATGM itself) is equipped with the thermal optics...?

Do you know that TOW are wire-guided by the operator that pulled the trigger? The sight is on the vehicle or portable system.There is no sight on the missile.

Yes, I know, thank you. That's why I wanted to know whether this is also modeled in the game? Because I had the impression that those Jaguar ATGMs didn't care at all about the smoke... Even if the Jaguar-TOW shooter can see through smoke (with his TAS 4 thermal imaging on the ATGMs sight?), the TOWs laser should still be somewhat negatively affected by smoke (same goes for laser range finding from battle tanks...)?

[budd]

Regarding smoke on or between a hex. From earlier in the thread.

10. Smoke: What's the height of smoke? Do I need to place smoke BETWEEN my positions and the enemy positions or does it also work if I put smoke directly ON the postions?

Smoke screens are ground-hugging, 20m / 60ft high. From/to elevated positions, you might see over a smoke screen. The game performs a 3D line-of-sight check.

Smoke screens are more effective between the enemy and friendly position than on the enemy position, as the enemy (when attacking) can pick the edge positions in the hex, and doesn't suffer from the full effects of the smoke screen.

William