Explainers on Game Concepts

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Erik Rutins
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Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Erik Rutins »

I thought I'd start a log of various posts where I explain game systems in response to questions, starting with these:

Trade

There are several different types of trading and trade income and benefits in DW2.

The primary benefit of trade is that it gives you access to construction and luxury resources you may not otherwise have, preventing shortages and also driving up the development and happiness of your colony worlds. That can be a big benefit vs having no trade. In the Diplomacy screen for each empire, you can see which resources they can provide you are missing or have a shortage on.

This also only works if you have trade with another faction that has resources you need and is close enough and has the freighters to provide them. You may have Trade with someone across the galaxy, but until you and they have the hyperdrives to reach that distance, it won't help much.

Secondary benefits come through trade income. With Restricted Trade Agreements, only resources that are in abundance will be traded and they will cost significantly more than their normal prices. This tariff can be seen in Resource Trading Income (your trade partner buys resources from you) and Resource Trading Expenses (you buy resources from your trade partner). Limited Trade will trade any resource that is not in critical shortage and at a lower tariff.

Free Trade removes all tariffs and also makes all resources available, first come first served, regardless of their shortage status. So you have access to each other's resource economy as if it were your own. The main benefit to Free Trade is that you no longer incur additional expenses when buying resources from your trade partner and if they have some nice luxuries or rare construction resources in low supply, you get equal opportunity access to those.

Also, if you have no resources that your trade partner wants, but they have a lot that you want, you will end up giving them more trade income than they give to you.

Finally, there is Bonus Trade Income. This comes from Commerce Centers and every time there is a trade, the Commerce Center will generate some additional income. With Commerce Centers on your spaceports, you'll get some straight trade income with each transaction, but it won't generally be as big as the tariffs, but it's also pure profit.

Max Pop, Suitability and Support Costs

What is the Suitability for your human population on that planet? For a 54% quality Ocean moon, I'd expect it to be quite low, barely habitable and sure to have high support costs. Basically they'd be living in a constructed floating city amid massive hurricanes and such.

This is also why they are maxed out at 642M even though at full suitability the planet would support 5 Billion or so.

If you hover over the planet quality in the bottom left, it should tell you the Suitability by race on that planet.

We plan to add additional warnings about low suitability in the UI as soon as we finish dealing with critical issues.

Stealth

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9#p4973619

Civilian Freighters Carrying Few Resources

The civilian economy works based on the desired Maintain levels at various locations and meets the needs as they arise. Sometimes in order to proceed with ship construction, or to have enough for a retrofit, or to in the future build a spaceport, or to meet the construction and luxury resource needs of a growing population, the orders are not large. At other times, they can be quite significant.

You can see throughout the forum feedback a lot of players often complain that X resource is not arriving in a certain place fast enough.

There's a lot of push and pull between the efficiency of being timely with getting resources where they need to be so the state (the player) doesn't have to wait too long to do what they want to do and the efficiency of delaying shipments simply to fill up a freighter. We've tried it both ways and erring on the side of reducing delay leads to a better functioning civilian and state economy. Overall, while this does vary over time and with each economy, it's not unusual to see freighters making long trips with relatively small cargos from time to time as they try to make timely deliveries of just what is needed.

Colonization choices, Tech and Terraforming
So reading the Galactopedia. It talks about how the "suitability" of a planet is calculated.
Playing as the Aackdarian. I'm suppose to be getting quite a good bonus of +20 to Ocean planets.
Yet the Galactopedia also says that colonizing planets under Suitability of +20 isn't good as it will be a major net drain on your income due to unsuitable planet, and or require substantial more income to get it up to speed.
Problem is it takes a 71% or higher quality planet to reach that point.. Basically you need a Gaia perfect Garden of Eden world for a world you're suited for, before it's remotely worth colonizing.. This just doesn't seem right.
Also in a majority of my games, I'm seeing sub 50% planets consistently, meaning even Ocean planets are generally hitting the +10 to +15 suitability, making them not good candidates for colonizing (going off of the devs +20 baseline)
You can colonize below +20, just make sure you have an understanding that the world will need more support until it gets to +20 or above. Ocean planets by default range from 50% to 70% quality. At normal difficulty, that gets reduced a bit, but with the Ackdarian bonus, that still means that overall Ocean planets should range from +13 to +30 for the Ackdarians (keep in mind that a raw quality of 50% is the minimum for colonization = 0 suitability removing any other modifiers).

That's before you factor in colonization research or terraforming facilities.

Researching colonization can push that up another 10, terraforming can eventually do the same, for a final range with all possible boosts of +33 to +50.

I will often colonize systems below +20 if they are otherwise strategic and I know that I will soon research tech or build a terraformer to get them up to +20.

Exploration: Resource Scanners vs Survey Modules

I will try to explain this a bit better and we'll make sure to add more of an explanation to the galactopedia in the future. The Exploration section in the Galactopedia does explain this conceptually, but not to this level of detail of component stats.

Resource scanners are great for exploring anything within their range at the same time and also not needing to get as close with sublight engines to start exploring. They are also faster than survey teams, but can't explore to as high a level.

Exploration range is the range (in game units, just like weapon range) that a resource scanner can explore to. Anything within that distance can be explored as part of one pass.

Exploration power is the maximum exploration level that scanner can reach with its scan.

Exploration time is the time to complete one scan and increase the exploration level.

For Survey modules, which represent actually sending a team to the planet or moon or asteroid for a closer detailed survey, they work similarly, just without the range.

Survey Amount is the initial exploration level a Survey module can reach after one survey.

Survey Maximum Level is the highest exploration level a Survey module can reach. This may take multiple surveys after the initial survey.

Survey time is the time each survey takes.

Survey modules are most efficient at finding things that are at or below their Survey Amount. It takes them much longer to find things that are at their Maximum Level due to the additional surveys required.
Erik Rutins
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Bloodly
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Bloodly »

You say Commerce Centres give money on each transaction. Does this include your private sector refuelling or transferring stuff? Can Commerce Centres get money out of the private sector and into State coffers? Even if it just generates the money from nowhere, that'd be good, and worth knowing.

Also, this sort of info should be in the Galactopedia. It's what it's FOR.
Last edited by Bloodly on Tue Mar 15, 2022 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Emperor0Akim
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Emperor0Akim »

And how do the percentage Boni fit into the trade calculation ?

Do other empires pay more/less for ressources or does it generate more money from nothing like Trade Centers ?
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Arcurus
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Arcurus »

thx for the explanation. Maybe a tool tip in the diplomacy screen about what a restricted / limited / free trade agreement means would be great. Something like tariff % and which resources are traded (critical / not critical).
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by BTAxis »

Erik Rutins wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:48 pm If you hover over the planet quality in the bottom left, it should tell you the Suitability by race on that planet.

We plan to add additional warnings about low suitability in the UI as soon as we finish dealing with critical issues.
With regard to this, I think the game should tell me the actual maximum population that the planet can sustain. As it stands, the maximum population figure you can find on the colony details screen is never what the actual max population ends up being, which makes it a useless piece of information.

What I would like is for that figure to give an estimate of what the maximum population will be, with a tooltip breaking it down into the current mixture of the races inhabiting the planet and the suitability for each.
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Ingor »

Erik Rutins wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:48 pm

Finally, there is Bonus Trade Income. This comes from Commerce Centers and every time there is a trade, the Commerce Center will generate some additional income. With Commerce Centers on your spaceports, you'll get some straight trade income with each transaction, but it won't generally be as big as the tariffs, but it's also pure profit.
Thanks for this post. Can I ask if the bonus trade income depends on how many commerce center you add ? If I stick 10 commerce centers on a spaceport, will my trade income explode ? Or is it just based on the tier of the commerce center component?
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Harrish »

Thanks! This is great stuff, please keep it coming.
Badbonez
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Badbonez »

Erik Rutins wrote: Tue Mar 15, 2022 7:48 pm
If you hover over the planet quality in the bottom left, it should tell you the Suitability by race on that planet.

We plan to add additional warnings about low suitability in the UI as soon as we finish dealing with critical issues.
I don't understand the suitability value as expressed in the tool tip. The Galactopedia says we should strive to colonize planets with 20 or more suitability, but the tool tip shows it as '+x' which means it is additive to..something. What does it add to?

For example
I have colonized a forest world, 55% quality, +15 suitability for humans. The max population on that planet is 6.5 billion, which seems like a large enough population to me. Am I wrong? Is the tax revenue from 6 billion people not enough to be self-supportive?
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Last edited by Badbonez on Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by harshmyth »

Can anyone explain how weapon counter measures work. I'm talking about the "weapon counter measures" attached to seeking weapons' such as missiles and torpedo's. Is it Accuracy and/ or speed of point defense with "weapon counter measures" of seeker subtracted somehow. I'm just trying to make sense of a stat that I think may be underrated. Thanks in advance.

p.s. Also, Current game build economy and diplomacy is working really well as far as I can see. I was concerned during beta but it's working quite good in the current build.
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WingedIncubus
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by WingedIncubus »

Badbonez wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:53 pm For example
I have colonized a forest world, 55% quality, +15 suitability for humans. The max population on that planet is 6.5 billion, which seems like a large enough population to me. Am I wrong? Is the tax revenue from 6 billion people not enough to be self-supportive?
Image
But the tax rate on your screenshot is 0%, so you have no tax revenue from that planet.
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by BTAxis »

Badbonez wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:53 pm I don't understand the suitability value as expressed in the tool tip. The Galactopedia says we should strive to colonize planets with 20 or more suitability, but the tool tip shows it as '+x' which means it is additive to..something. What does it add to?
No, the + symbol is just a sign, not an operator in this context. It just means it's a positive value.
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Badbonez »

WingedIncubus wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:17 pm
But the tax rate on your screenshot is 0%, so you have no tax revenue from that planet.
Of course it's set to zero, to maximize growth. The question is, when the pop is at maximum, will it pay for itself (after I increase tax rate, of course)?
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Badbonez
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Badbonez »

BTAxis wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:26 pm
Badbonez wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:53 pm I don't understand the suitability value as expressed in the tool tip. The Galactopedia says we should strive to colonize planets with 20 or more suitability, but the tool tip shows it as '+x' which means it is additive to..something. What does it add to?
No, the + symbol is just a sign, not an operator in this context. It just means it's a positive value.
So +15 is not a good colonization target? Because it seems to me 6 billion people would be enough for self sustainment. The reason I ask is that I have an ocean world that is +11 for humans, and I wonder if I am wasting my time in trying to colonize that.
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BTAxis
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by BTAxis »

You can still colonize with +11 or +16. You'll just have a lower maximum population and a higher support cost on that world. It all depends on how badly you want to colonize the world.
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Erik Rutins »

Added a bit about civilian freighters to the first post.
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Ingor »

Erik Rutins wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:56 pm Added a bit about civilian freighters to the first post.
Very nice to read this indeed.

About this topic, in my current game, I've remarked that my economy is doing waaaaay better if I just take over the ressource stock levels wanted in every colony, and get everything to the maximum, specially the luxury ressources. Because I think the automation is doing really poorly with that,

In my previous game, I've had a mining station being full of Korabbian Spice. For those who don't know, it's one of the top tier luxury ressource, and I've battled for it. 20 years later, I realize that it wasn't present in my capital at all, and on my 6 colonies, only one had it I think. I started blaming freighters, but I think the colony was just not asking for it, so none brought it... It wasn't about the free trade agreements I had, because the station was like always full :D

Any thoughts about that ? What's driving the autmation of "automate ressource stock levels" in colonies at the moment ?

Thanks !
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Spidey »

Badbonez wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:42 pm
BTAxis wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 5:26 pm
Badbonez wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 4:53 pm I don't understand the suitability value as expressed in the tool tip. The Galactopedia says we should strive to colonize planets with 20 or more suitability, but the tool tip shows it as '+x' which means it is additive to..something. What does it add to?
No, the + symbol is just a sign, not an operator in this context. It just means it's a positive value.
So +11 is not a good colonization target? Because it seems to me 6 billion people would be enough for self sustainment.
+11 is your human suitability modifier for that planet. But you have to also factor in the basic planet quality that the number modifies. As I understand it, you want PQ + race modifier to add up to 70 or more.

But the whole thing really is a bit of a mess. The numbers are not intuitive, and PQ being a percentage to which we're supposed to just add a "static number" is weird. And the galactopedia entries for races saying they have percentage bonuses to various planet types but not listing what the flat bonuses are is weird. They could be a percentage of PQ, of course, but that math doesn't appear to work out at a glance either. All in all, it really shouldn't be this hard to understand.

And on the topic of planet qualities, I really can't say that I like this idea that all planets have a universal "quality" about them that is identical for all races, with nothing but fairly minor racial modifiers to adjust this "quality". And I particularly don't like that some planet types are universally "low quality" whereas others are universally "high quality". That's so aggressively human-centric that it really doesn't help sell the illusion of a universe with diverse lifeforms.

Why on Earth would Ackdarians define all the dry planets that they dislike living on as "high quality" when they're dry and quite terrible for them? Why would they define waterworlds as "meh, only 40-50% quality" when they're everything they could possibly want? That's just tripping up my brain and I have to force myself to not think about it. I suppose this is for practical reasons, but it just feels wrong.
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by BTAxis »

Spidey wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:46 pm +11 is your human suitability modifier for that planet. But you have to also factor in the basic planet quality that the number modifies. As I understand it, you want PQ + race modifier to add up to 70 or more.
This isn't accurate. From the galactopedia:
suitability.png
suitability.png (201.79 KiB) Viewed 3632 times
This is also why terraforming is important. It raises effective suitability.
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by baldamundo »

Thanks for posting these! Really helpful. Hadn't realised the trade mechanics were that in depth - sounds really good.
BTAxis wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:02 pm
Spidey wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:46 pm +11 is your human suitability modifier for that planet. But you have to also factor in the basic planet quality that the number modifies. As I understand it, you want PQ + race modifier to add up to 70 or more.
This isn't accurate. From the galactopedia:
suitability.png

This is also why terraforming is important. It raises effective suitability.
Maybe I'm being stupid, but I've really been struggling to get my head around this.

Where is "Race Suitability for Planet" listed? The Galactopedia has "Colonisation minimum quality" and "Colonisation modifiers" - are "colonisation modifiers" the same as "Race Suitability for Planet"? The terminology probably should be consistent.

And if they're both fixed values per race per planet type, why is it two separate values? Why aren't they just summed to begin with? If all Teekans have +30 Race Suitability for all Sandy Desert Planets, and if all Teekans have 40 Race Minimum Suitability for all Sandy Desert Planets...doesn't that just mean that all Teekans have a -10 modifier for all Sandy Desert Planets? I don't understand why there's an extra step in the calculation and two separate numbers listed.

And actually even that's confusing, because the default Race Minimum Suitability is -50...so the Teekans have a +30 Race Suitabiliity and a -40 Race Minimum Suitability...which means they have a -10 modifier...but that -10 modifier is actually in practical terms a +40 bonus, because other races by default have a -50 modifier?

Sorry, am I misunderstanding this? It seems really needlessly confusing?
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Re: Explainers on Game Concepts

Post by Spidey »

BTAxis wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:02 pm
Spidey wrote: Wed Mar 16, 2022 8:46 pm +11 is your human suitability modifier for that planet. But you have to also factor in the basic planet quality that the number modifies. As I understand it, you want PQ + race modifier to add up to 70 or more.
This isn't accurate. From the galactopedia:
suitability.png

This is also why terraforming is important. It raises effective suitability.
Hmm. True, the colonization techs do add -5 / -10 to minimum suitability level. And then you can add additional PQ percentage through terraforming on top.

But I have to say, none of this makes the actual mechanics easier to put into simple terms that are easy to digest. It's a needlessly clunky system with way too many similar-sounding terms and weirdly arbitrary numbers that make very little intuitive sense.
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