Freighters

[Schatten]

Well could some devlopers explain what have you thinked yourself introducing Small, Medium and Large Freighter Hulls that cannot Upgrade (Small--->Medum--->Large)?
Small is worser as Medium, both much worser as Large yet you stuck forever with all 3 of them except you skip designing medium Hulls than you stick with 2 as you cannot scrap all small at onece but need to do it ship for ship if you choose so.

So whats exactly the Point for this?

[Nightskies]

The best way to answer this is by asking you a question.

Is there any benefit to having small freighters when you have medium and large? Any at all?

[OrnluWolfjarl]

The best way to answer this is by asking you a question.

Is there any benefit to having small freighters when you have medium and large? Any at all?

Yes! Small = Cheap, easy and fast to make. If you design them right (by limiting the fuel cells you give them), you can have Small freighters support a colony from the local systems, and let Medium/Large freighters do long-distance hauling and trading.

You don't want Large freighters doing hauling jobs of the type "go and deliver 100 Caslon to that Mining Station" because:
- Their trip will cost you more fuel because of the ship's bigger size, than if a small ship was going to carry out the order.
- You are tying up a lot of cargo space for an insignificantly small order. That Large freighter could be carrying large amounts of more vital resources from elsewhere instead.
- When freighters do a fuel run, they load up their cargo space to full, and when they get to the target destination, they transfer the required resources until the destination is full, then they destroy the rest of the cargo. This happens with other resources too. So if you only have freighters with massive cargo space, you end up wasting a bunch of resources constantly. If you have freighters of different capacities, the AI will try to use the one most suitable for the job.

[Schatten]

The best way to answer this is by asking you a question.

Is there any benefit to having small freighters when you have medium and large? Any at all?

Yes! Small = Cheap, easy and fast to make. If you design them right (by limiting the fuel cells you give them), you can have Small freighters support a colony from the local systems, and let Medium/Large freighters do long-distance hauling and trading.

You don't want Large freighters doing hauling jobs of the type "go and deliver 100 Caslon to that Mining Station" because:
- Their trip will cost you more fuel because of the ship's bigger size, than if a small ship was going to carry out the order.
- You are tying up a lot of cargo space for an insignificantly small order. That Large freighter could be carrying large amounts of more vital resources from elsewhere instead.
- When freighters do a fuel run, they load up their cargo space to full, and when they get to the target destination, they transfer the required resources until the destination is full, then they destroy the rest of the cargo. This happens with other resources too. So if you only have freighters with massive cargo space, you end up wasting a bunch of resources constantly. If you have freighters of different capacities, the AI will try to use the one most suitable for the job.

Well in Theory sounds great in praxis its non-existing since:
The AI sends the Freighters as it likes with range and cargo, means its often sends a large Freighter with 10 units cargo to next planet while sending a small one to other side of Galaxy with more cargo. It also dont considers the fuel range as they very often fly without Fuel to their destinations.
Upkeep costs dont matter, they so small (and also the difference is so small) that you can hardly see them.

So in short, all 3 Types make same Jobs no matter the range and cargo space. They fly basically always not full loaded to every target in whole Galaxy.
So still Medium and Small ones total usless as soon you have large hulls yet you cannot upgrade them or scrap them all at once to get rid of them.

It same as if you would have also 3 different Passanger Ships Hulls that cannot upgrade one to next however here you can (and its the same, if they fly Migrants they use full capacity but the same ship uses 20 or 40k Passangers (while it can fit lets say a Million with last tech) if its Tourists.
It dont matters here, you upgrade them from small over medium to large so why not Freighters that have exactly same issues?

[Nightskies]

In practice, not in theory, this saves a lot of fuel and private money to use small freighters. The upkeep difference is not small; a late game auto-designed freighter is over 1k maintenance, and a small one is under 600. The large uses more than 50% more static energy. It doesn't matter if you have 400 or over 5000 freighters. That difference adds up.

It does consider fuel range. Just because you saw freighters run out of fuel doesn't mean otherwise.

They all do take the same jobs. However, the large ones have a larger capacity, thus allowing them to take more when total capacity is a factor. It often isn't. Because of this, I advocate only using small freighters.

It is different from passenger ships. You always want the largest passenger ships possible. It is not so with freighters.

[Jorgen_CAB]

Erik also explained that the logistics AI will handle the different ships differently in the game too. So larger freighters are more likely to be used for moving resources between stations and small freighters used to move resources from stations to ports.

So there are reasons for why they exist in the game other than just cost, size and fuel use.

[Schatten]

Erik also explained that the logistics AI will handle the different ships differently in the game too. So larger freighters are more likely to be used for moving resources between stations and small freighters used to move resources from stations to ports.

So there are reasons for why they exist in the game other than just cost, size and fuel use.

Well mayby it was intended that way but that certainly not how it works. in real everthing moves with everything anywhere.
If it would work why than not different Hulls for Passangerships, huge ones for Migration small for Tourists?

Or why the small Hulls not very very faster as the large ones? in fact they slower due to less engines.

Its same thing as the Fuel Tankers, well intended but definietly not working. Well i would not mind if there were 1 Button to scrap all small or medium Freighters with one click but there is none. That means if you want get rid of them you free to pick 200 or 400 Ships one after next to scrap them manually..oh and their icons also look same....

[Jorgen_CAB]

Well mayby it was intended that way but that certainly not how it works. in real everthing moves with everything anywhere.
If it would work why than not different Hulls for Passangerships, huge ones for Migration small for Tourists?

Or why the small Hulls not very very faster as the large ones? in fact they slower due to less engines.

Its same thing as the Fuel Tankers, well intended but definietly not working. Well i would not mind if there were 1 Button to scrap all small or medium Freighters with one click but there is none. That means if you want get rid of them you free to pick 200 or 400 Ships one after next to scrap them manually..oh and their icons also look same....

Are you sure of that... from what I have seen it does look like larger ships will actually more commonly push goods between stations rather than pick up small loads on mining stations. It does not mean they always do that, it depends on the demand around their current location.

I don't think you have studied the system enough to know for sure there is no difference.

[Schatten]

im sure. You can pick and track all 3 sorts of freighters and you will see that they move totally randomly about cargo and distance. Moreover its really rare taht the ships use all their cargo no matter the Hull size.

Its absolutly same with Passanger ships btw. if one moves Tourists and unloads them 9 of 10 times its than goes to anywhere to pick up Migrants and not staying on *Tourist* duty with same Planet-Station what would be most effective.

For what i see the system simply works so: List of resources to move --- List of availiable Ships: it picks the first one ship on the list with enough fuel to come to pick up (not necessary to fly back) a ressource and so on.

Amount of the Ressources dont matter as long they fit in and also the location of the Ship dont matter as long it has enough fuel to come.

Still i would like a button to scrap/retire all small/medium Hulls at once.

[Nightskies]

To each their own. Though if your mind was already made up, why ask?

[Jorgen_CAB]

im sure. You can pick and track all 3 sorts of freighters and you will see that they move totally randomly about cargo and distance. Moreover its really rare taht the ships use all their cargo no matter the Hull size.

Its absolutly same with Passanger ships btw. if one moves Tourists and unloads them 9 of 10 times its than goes to anywhere to pick up Migrants and not staying on *Tourist* duty with same Planet-Station what would be most effective.

For what i see the system simply works so: List of resources to move --- List of availiable Ships: it picks the first one ship on the list with enough fuel to come to pick up (not necessary to fly back) a ressource and so on.

Amount of the Ressources dont matter as long they fit in and also the location of the Ship dont matter as long it has enough fuel to come.

Still i would like a button to scrap/retire all small/medium Hulls at once.

Again.. I don't think you have studied it that closely.... in two games I checked then the large freighters carried all port to port cargo and only a few small and medium ships carried cargo from some outlying colonies to a central port. That is too much in favour of large freighters considering there are ALLOT more small freighters around in both games.

[kutaycosar]

So I was considering buying this game as logistic simulation in space because someone claimed it’s the one, now seeing that the game not even able represent different freighter types and their roles correctly, sigh.

[Jorgen_CAB]

So I was considering buying this game as logistic simulation in space because someone claimed it’s the one, now seeing that the game not even able represent different freighter types and their roles correctly, sigh.

What do you mean, it does represent logistical burden quite well. What are you referring to as you come to that conclusion?