Poll: Bradley's Front Trilogy Game Sequence

[bcgames]

Explain your reasoning below.

[Zovs]

Cobra could have some awesome scenario's with Patton's 3rd Army. It would follow on nicely with Monty's Trilogy and cover July 25-Aug 7.

[Toby42]

My Dad was in the 28th ID which fought in the Hurtgen Forest. I thought it would be interesting to simulate some of the battles that he told me about? He said that this was the worst fighting that he was involved in!

[Fraggo5]

Cobra, as it is more of a dynamic campaign and is the allied version of Blitzkrieg, it would present a challenge for players on either side .

[bcgames]

Brittany--Yes or No?

I say no. What are your reasons for yes?

My reasons for NO is having to build a huge map to replicate a boring road march to lay siege to Breast and Nantes...thus diverting from the fun play of getting to Avranches, the Mortain counter-offensive, and the Battle of the Falaise Pocket.

Convince me I'm wrong.

[Alan Sharif]

I'd have to agree, so no attempt at convincing required.

[bcgames]

On the Bulge, my experience in developing MARKET-GARDEN caused me to strongly believe that--what's going on on the flanks helps to define what happens to the main effort (the focus of the game). Understanding the progress or hindrance in the advance of British VIII and XII Corps becomes imperative for comprehending the cause-and-effect dynamics underlying the battles of XXX Corps as they strive to reach Arnhem and beyond.

It is my observation that board games centered around the MARKET-GARDEN theme have operational limitations due to the balancing act between component costs and their corresponding benefits. In contrast, computer wargames offer us an avenue to broaden our scope; allowing us to delve into the intricate interplay of factors from both the "left and right" flanks, impacting the central thrust.

Given this perspective, I'm curious about your thoughts on the extent to which you would expand the relevant map area of The Bulge. What is the rationale that guides your beliefs in this regard. Your insights would be greatly appreciated.

[MarechalJoffre]

For what its worth, I believe including the US VII Corps AoR would be an added bonus but not a necessity, unlike the flanks of Market-Garden salient that were covered by UK XII and UK VIII Corps. Operations by those corps were of fundamental importance to the main action by XXX Corps.

Yet the American VII, XIX and XIII Corps largely fought their own battle up north in Hürtgen and the Roer plain. Extending the map that far north might help give the Ardennes Offensive some context but I'd argue it is more work than necessary. I don't consider these directly relevant to the German offensive.

What I'd like to see in a Bulge wargame however is the inclusion of 272. and 326. Volks-Grenadier Divisions' futile attempt in front of Monschau-Höfen. Northern edge of the map thus could be somewhere around Mützenich-Simmerath. Could be extended to Eupen area as that was the northernmost final objective for the aforementioned units.

For the southern flank, XII Corps should be included. The front to the south of the 4th ID's positions hadn't moved since September all that much, however, so extending it any further doesn't seem necessary. 4th ID's struggle against AOK 7 on 16-19 December needs to be covered for sure though. Junglinster-Manternach thus could be the southern edge of the map?

To the west, include the Meuse crossings & the rollbahn routes and you get a nice, big map for a Bulge wargame.

[bcgames]

MarechalJoffre--Great feedback. These insights are exactly what I'm looking for.

[bcgames]

Do you think including Antwerp in a Bulge game is a bridge too far? Before you answer, how about this hypothetical? What if ALL the promised German divisions for Unternehmen Wacht Am Rhine had been provided (especially 11.Panzer Division and 17.SS Panzer Grenadier Divisions)? Is this worth exploring or still--not enough to "get there".

[Zovs]

Just curious, the poll clearly indicates that Cobra is preferred but why all the talk about a Bulge game?

[MarechalJoffre]

Do you think including Antwerp in a Bulge game is a bridge too far? Before you answer, how about this hypothetical? What if ALL the promised German divisions for Unternehmen Wacht Am Rhine had been provided (especially 11.Panzer Division and 17.SS Panzer Grenadier Divisions)? Is this worth exploring or still--not enough to "get there".

Antwerp was the ultimate objective. I can see the reasoning for its inclusion.

Indeed a hypothetical engagement between Germans successfully crossing the Meuse in force and the British XXX Corps in reserve springing into action could prove to be very interesting. Terrain west of the Meuse is rather flat as well, which would be a nice change in pace gameplay wise from the forests of Ardennes.

But how do the Germans get there? I definitely don't think the inclusion of 17. SS and 11. PzD would make that difference, especially given the 17. SS' feeble attempt during Nordwind.

Could it be worth exploring for wargaming purposes? Definitely. But if inclusion of the hypothetical creates a trade-off between getting more scenarios about the historical offensive (especially the northern shoulder!), I'd definitely pick the latter.

[bcgames]

Just curious, the poll clearly indicates that Cobra is preferred but why all the talk about a Bulge game?

Like Monty's Front, Bradley's Front is a trilogy. All three games will be produced; the poll is about the order of production. All require research and identification of requirements.

[bcgames]

...Could it be worth exploring for wargaming purposes? Definitely. But if inclusion of the hypothetical creates a trade-off between getting more scenarios about the historical offensive (especially the northern shoulder!), I'd definitely pick the latter.

Good call.

[scsfan]

I selected Bulge. I know this is a topic has been done so many times, But I just like to have a bigger OOB Unless Cobra also including the 3rd Army and the Brittish.

[scsfan]

Do you think including Antwerp in a Bulge game is a bridge too far? Before you answer, how about this hypothetical? What if ALL the promised German divisions for Unternehmen Wacht Am Rhine had been provided (especially 11.Panzer Division and 17.SS Panzer Grenadier Divisions)? Is this worth exploring or still--not enough to "get there".

This would be my personal preference. At least I'd like to have the map ready for mod. Just like the WEGO Starlingrad, I'm working on the combined map with the 2 main campaign in the game, to see if I can do Operation Uranus, or Army Group B part of Case Blue. I always wanted a "big" operational level game, with "what if" historical variations like the ones you suggested above.

[scsfan]

talking hypothetical, may be we can add weather conditions that reduce the Allied air superiority, thus reduce interdiction on Axis supply, adding this one may be enough to "get there"

[bcgames]

Indeed.