Extreme Axis Air Losses ?

[tm1]

Now I know there are issues with the Air component and I did switch from patch 1.01.09 to 1.02.11 from turn 3 if memory serves me which could have effected things but the scale of losses in 2 turns baffles me.

I would like to point out this is a PVE game against the Soviet AI.

But from turn 2 to turn 4 I have lost nearly 800 Axis aircraft !!!.

[tm1]

this turn 3 I think maybe old but might be new patch 2.11

[tm1]

Turn 4 new patch 2.11

[tm1]

This my Air doctrine I use for my Air commands I give the AI control of it as I focus on ground combat.

Maybe I have something wrong here that could be fixed, but if level of losses continues i will have no Air force by December or earlier.

[AlbertN]

Do you use Automatic Air Assist thingie?

That has international fame to crash your planes happily and merrily by overusing them in general.

[tm1]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Do you use Automatic Air Assist thingie?

That has international fame to crash your planes happily and merrily by overusing them in general.

Yes I am using Automated Air assist, I let the AI handle air operations

[Tailspintommy]

I'm no expert so could be very wrong but given your losses of level bombers and fighter bombers, I'd say you were flying too many unescorted missions and flying too low. Low flying will get you shredded by light flak and long range, unescorted bomber missions will suffer high losses, even in 1941.

[tm1]

Can someone be kind enough to show there standard Air doctrine format so I can it from my current one please.

regards

[Zovs]

Looks like you used the default AD, that always creates high losses for the Luftwaffe (275-375). If you use my guide on turn one you could be at 100-150 losses (see my AAR, still need to post turn 2 but awaiting turn 3). From then on you have to watch and manage your GS, don’t keep it on, only use it when you need to.

[AlbertN]

Mostly do not keep Ground Support on through the enemy turn!

[tm1]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Looks like you used the default AD, that always creates high losses for the Luftwaffe (275-375). If you use my guide on turn one you could be at 100-150 losses (see my AAR, still need to post turn 2 but awaiting turn 3). From then on you have to watch and manage your GS, don’t keep it on, only use it when you need to.

Is this the game your referring to

1941 GC Zovs (Axis) vs. thedoctorking (Soviet)

cheers

[tm1]

ORIGINAL: AlbertN

Mostly do not keep Ground Support on through the enemy turn!

yeah I was thinking over turning it as its where I am losing most of my planes.

cheers

[AlbertN]

ZoV wrote a guide here: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5101678

In the War Room subforum you can find some interesting discussions on a variety of topics!

The developing team also has to work on the Air War, as there are some known problem.

Among the issues is that right now if you have Ground Support on, and there are bombers assigned to the task, and there are also fighters ... but a ground combat happens in the range of the bombers but out of the range of the fighters, your bombers will go. Unescorted.
And presently even shoddy I-153 biplanes will butcher modern and fast Ju88. (Which is discussed in another thread in the War Room, about Luftwaffe vs VVS and turn 1 bombing).

The team is working on these things or have them on the 'to do list', and til now they've worked in the right direction I feel for the Air War, pretty quickly patching issues rising via PvP games.

Also take some time to tinker and experiment in single player. In general one learns more by practicing, than by reading. A good mix of both activities will net long term results! [;)]

[jubjub]

Can you provide the CR of your battles with air losses?

[cameron88]

The problem is flak losses and reliability are both unrealistic in this game, atleast compared to real life and WITW to name a previous example. You can't feasibily bomb anything, especially with low flying aircraft like JU87 or IL2s without being unrealistically shredded by flak, and even if you don't, you lose 20% of your planes to operational losses.

[Erik Rutins]

From what Joel has said, it's my understanding that there are several things going on with flak and ops losses. First, the flak and ops losses over the course of a turn, or a week or a month are roughly realistic. However, the air system does not generate "sorties" 1:1 compared to historical sorties, so on a per-sortie basis, they look high. Second, there were some reporting issues that mis-reported flak or ops losses is past versions. Third, there is player action and it's easier than it should be to inadvertently fly into a lot of flak if you don't check and it's also easier than it should be to either forget to turn your GS off or to fly outside the range of your escorts and end up with an interception that causes havoc with your bombers. The sum total of this is that I know Joel, Gary and Pavel are continuing to look at saves and where they see an issue they'll adjust, but I don't think flak and ops are far off from where they should be, barring the last case.

On the last case, we plan to make some UI improvements in the future to make it easier for players to see when they have GS on, when it's out of range of escorts, to remind them at the end of the turn if they want to turn it off, to also make it easier to note potential flak issues and (hopefully, this is apparently a much tougher "feature") to make it easier for the AI to avoid inadvertent flak "traps" as well.

With fully manual air you have a lot of control over all this. With fully automated air, you can still do quite well, but you do have to be careful to pay attention to your AOG status, settings and airfields and depots. You may need to rest them periodically if losses get high, or change their asset/supply priority. You can play through an entire campaign with fully automated air and do fine if your opponent is also using automated air, or playing against the AI but a fully skilled manual air opponent has additional tools at their disposal that will usually allow them to do better in the air war.

Regards,

- Erik

[Gunner Garidel]

I have been watching a YT series on WITE2 by Strategy Gaming Dojo. One episode is 'Air War - what I've Learned'. I highly recommend you watch it. It is eye-opening.

[cameron88]

I just loaded turn 1 in STB for a quick example, i literally have 20+ photos like this i could get, but this is just a normal thing to see that you could easily replicate. You can't possibly tell me this is WAD.. This is the result from ground attacking with JU87s, like i said, they get unrealistically shredded by AA, which if you look at the actual elements, is even more dumb, because apparently 11 dshk guns shot down 33 Stukas in a single attack. With gameplay like this, you CAN NOT, effectively or realistically set up any ground attack missions, not only does it do virtually no damage (As seen in this photo, +0 interdiction), but you lose all your planes in just a couple attacks! Compare this to loading up WITE1, and i could easily ground attack with JU87s, and did it frequently to support my troops and attacks, without these ridiculous losses.

[tm1]

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Can you provide the CR of your battles with air losses?

I looked into the saves I had they which were not much help, but i took a look at the losses screens.

Flak is was killer over a 2 week period

[tm1]

ORIGINAL: tm1

ORIGINAL: jubjub

Can you provide the CR of your battles with air losses?

I looked into the saves I had they which were not much help, but i took a look at the losses screens.

Flak is was killer over a 2 week period

As was operational losses