Is this game good anymore?

[Cavalry Corp]

There is a lot to like about this game and I am liking it more and more but the tanks isuue is also starting to bug me....

My main issue is lack of mobility of Panzers ( 42) as I cannot get trucks into the units - If they have 50 mp they are still very dangerous (in terms of encirclements).Most Panzers on my map have 30 MP some less a few more - I have no idea why some units have the rucks and others do not.

Maybe low exp tank crews should receive a debit on firing or high exp get a better defence. OK Germany had fairly weak tanks in 41 but I cannot imagine they did not tackle Soviet Armour head on when the need arises - in this game if at all possible I use an infantry Division - that seems wrong.

[Beethoven1]

It is the best game out there as compared to any remotely similar sort of game. It is not perfect of course, but then again nothing is, and it gets progressively better over time with new patches. The devs are also working on the editor so if there is something in particular you don't like about your game, you can change a lot of things to suit your taste.

[Zovs]

First of all yes of course this game is still good, that is a silly question. This game is by far the most comprehensive, complex, and detailed operational East Front game out there, hands down bar none.

Secondly, there are some minor issues that need refinement but none are game breaking.

Thirdly, most of the posts on this thread seem to indicate incorrect German panzer and motorized usage. I see nothing wrong with using infantry and motorized division to slice a hole in a line so that motorized and tank units can exploit and encircle positions. You can’t use a single panzer division in isolation and attack a post turn 3 position, there is a better and more effective way to do a hasty attack with a panzer corps in one hex if need be or to move a position so that other panzer corps can exploit and encircle. You can’t expect single panzer divisions (let alone isolated regiments, don’t forgot this is a division level game) to obliterate all before them. You have to think combined arms or operating as panzer corps and use the other tools such as CPP and mobility. It appears to me too many are thinking in singular terms not in threes which in general is how most panzer corps are configured.

So my summation is your using your tools wrong.

[kahta]

Yes, this is a great game.

It is not something that can be absorbed in 15 minutes. A campaign can take 3-4 months of playing every night. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Gazzas]

ORIGINAL: Nikel

So it is a question of armor in early panzers or of firepower of early light russian tanks, or perhaps both.

The Soviet tanks are obviously over valued. No radios. Crappy optics. Inexperienced crews. Crews fighting with the hatches locked tight which ruined their situational awareness.

The T-34 is the most destroyed tank in history. And that is because, excluding mobility, There is nothing special about it. Sloping armor that is still relatively thin. A gun which isn't overly powerful until the t-34/85 arrives. But it was a threat and had to be destroyed.

The most important man in the Soviet tank is the driver. His job is to deliver his crew and vehicle into the jaws of death. He and others are there to use up German ammo so that the rest can hopefully break through. Tens of thousands were smashed on the battlefield through all causes.

What someone is failing to see is that in 1941, is that the Red Army was crap. Officer purges had bled it of effective leadership. Look what the Finns did to it during the Winter War, for Pete's sake. It was meant to bleed and die. It's only virtue was that there was enough of it to do so, and still be there to continue the fight.

It should be difficult for the Soviets to save Moscow. Hitler made some grievous errors altering the advance of the Panzer forces.

There's always gonna be that guy playing the Soviets who does every gamey trick to exploit the system. It just seems that in this version of the game, he has even more to exploit.

Then, when I'm playing the Soviets, there will always be that opponent who withdraws his army 10-12 hexes just before the blizzard sets in.

I've seen it before.

[Gazzas]

ORIGINAL: Stamb

"Still too wrong to waste time and money on."
Disagree. This is the only game that I am playing for multiple months due to a limited free time.

"Just more places to mess up in a game that already had a front so long that it still took an hour to do a PBEM turn."
One hour only? It takes 3-4 hours for me!

3-4 hours? Hell, I still have a full-time job and a wife. I don't have 3-4 hours every day.

[PeteJC]

I have been playing wargames for over 45 years and I would put this at the very top of the list. While I agree with Stambs comments I suspect the "advantages" given to the Soviet side are WAD to compensate for an AI generated defense. There are no companies (don't get me started about HOI) that have figured out how to create a defensive AI at the operational & strategic level that can come close to even an average human player. That is even assuming the player does not take advantage of various rules or historic hindsight.

With that said, you will need to invest a lot of time in this game. Further, even after doing so you will rarely win in '41. Which is obviously historically accurate even if Guderian did not turn south in August and this and that. A well modeled and programmed Eastern Front game should be nearly impossible for the Germans to win in '41 and VERY hard to win later.

[homer82]

"If the 1941 Panzer Divisions are that bad, then they have truly ruined this game."
"So when is the patch coming where replacements reach the front and the Panzer Divs of 1941 returned to the swords they really were?"
"Still too wrong to waste time and money on."
"3-4 hours? Hell, I still have a full-time job and a wife. I don't have 3-4 hours every day."

I think you've answered your own question.

[PeteJC]

It is more a time commitment then the first two points. The panzer divisions are still very strong from a practical sense IF you are playing the AI. The issue is when playing against a human. For example, when playing against the AI as German in 1941 all you have to do is not attack the Soviet tank divisions or mech divisions it is actually very easy to do while still achieving your encirclements and advancing at a historical pace. Not see (if not impossible) against a human. Also, if two human players re playing against each other they could agree on adjusting the Soviet logistics down under Game Options. I assume they can. I have never played a human vs. human scenario but I am assuming those options can still apply.

[RedJohn]

The issue with settings is, and correct me if I'm wrong, they last the entire game. We could set soviet logistics to 80 or 90, and that might do a lot. But 4 years later when it's their time to push past Minsk, the period where ostensibly their logistics begin to start facing issues, what impact will that game setting have?

[actrade]

From the initial post I has my suspicions this was a troll post and this one pretty much sums it up for me. This guy doesn't want help, he's just here to troll the game. Goodbye!

[Zovs]

ORIGINAL: Gazzas
3-4 hours? Hell, I still have a full-time job and a wife. I don't have 3-4 hours every day.

To learn the game you are going to need to invest several hundreds of hours into both playing the and reading the manual. It’s not a beer & pretzel game.

[marion61]

You can change your game settings during the course of a scenario on the Admin Panel. I use it frequently when I'm testing something.[8D]

[Stamb]

Is it still possible in multiplayer?

[marion61]

That I'm not sure of, but I'd say no for multiplayer (I haven't played a multiplayer game in awhile). I'm not sure how that would work if one player changed all his opponents options without them knowing it or how it might skew the match.

[carlkay58]

Game options are set in stone on the initial start of the game in HvH games. AI games allow changes at any time.

There is an outstanding question in another thread as to whether the Editor could be used to change those settings in an HvH game after the start.

[Sammy5IsAlive]

ORIGINAL: Zovs

ORIGINAL: Gazzas
3-4 hours? Hell, I still have a full-time job and a wife. I don't have 3-4 hours every day.

To learn the game you are going to need to invest several hundreds of hours into both playing the and reading the manual. It’s not a beer & pretzel game.

I'd actually disagree with this to a certain extent. For me whilst the full campaign requires a large time investment in terms of both learning and playing the smaller scenarios are much more accessible for a more casual player. I think I'd feel fairly comfortable saying to a potential buyer that if they were to play all the smaller scenarios but never move onto the full campaign they'd still be getting acceptable value for money.

[malyhin1517]

ORIGINAL: Gazzas
3-4 hours? Hell, I still have a full-time job and a wife. I don't have 3-4 hours every day.

You can make your move in a few days. I usually rarely manage to make a move faster than once every 3 days!

[ToxicThug11]

[font="Verdana"] This game is awesome [/font]

[Zebtucker12]

I love this game its my favorit currently and i play many games.