Ridiculous HQs spawn points.

[Stamb]

1.png (2.67 MiB) Viewed 355 times

another example is when Bryansk front arrives and can be spawned near enemy units that are few hexes away and still have 0 MPs.

Is there any reason not to spawn HQs somewhere behind Moscow in 1941?

[Joel Billings]

I'm not sure what problem you are describing. Where did the unit come from in the screenshot? You mention the Bryansk Front arriving and having 0 MPs? Is that a reinforcement arrival issue, or are you discussing HQ displacement?

[Stamb]

That unit just spawned there. Scripted reinforcement.

In previous server game Bryansk front had 0 MP and also spawned near an enemy. In current game it spawned with 50 MPs.

[Stamb]

Another example is NKPS that for some reason spawns near Leningrad. By that time Leningrad might already not have ground connection with the rest of the map and Soviet player has to somehow move it away via port, which might not have enough capacity.

[Joel Billings]

I assume it had 0 MP because it arrived adjacent to an enemy unit and displaced away, although not sure of the sequence of things. I just looked at a test game and found Bryansk Front arriving in Orel as the original entry hex was German occupied. NKPS units in C41 have no arrival hexes, so they are coming on generically, probably from north to south. Can you give me a pre-log save before arrival, and then a save at the start of the turn showing the HQ in the screenshot? I'd like to avoid the 0 MP arrival if we can get saves for that. No reason the NKPS shouldn't be placed in the scenario data to arrive well in the rear area. Harder to adjust the relocation routine in a way that suits all situations.

[Stamb]

I can give you the save, but it did not arrive with 0 MP. It had some MPs, problem is that spawned in such a position that even with 50 MPs there was no way to get out. So i had to replace leader there, as it spawned with a good one, to avoid potential leader death. And on the next turn it was pocketed, leader died, and again same leader that i tried to save took command .
So i had to spent ~30 APs just for this HQ in two turns.
On the next turn situation might repeat.

So tl;dr is that can you make HQs/NKPS/Fronts/etc spawn somewhere in a safe location? Urals might be a good spot.

[K62]

So tl;dr is that can you make HQs/NKPS/Fronts/etc spawn somewhere in a safe location? Urals might be a good spot.

Or the reserve TB.

[Joel Billings]

Having a pre-log save for before arrival, and then save after arrival would be very helpful. Do you have those? If it's a server game than we don't have those saves. Moving things to the reserve under some conditions may be possible, but if arrival from reserve uses the same calculations, than you could end up with no units unless the entry hex is safely repositioned each turn.

Trying to figure out if:
1) situation is due to original entry hex being enemy occupied
2) the original entry hex is next to an enemy unit (especially if units can arrive on map with 0 MP)
3) we are only talking about arrival, not HQ/unit displacement moves

[Stamb]

That screenshot is from the start of Soviet turn 8. Which exact pre log save do you need?
In this rar i attach start of turn 8 and Soviet pre log 8,9 (no idea how they work and which to give).

saves.rar

(6.33 MiB) Downloaded 2 times

I mentioned couple of things in this topic.

As for the screenshot in the first post - that HQ spawned there with 50 MPs.

[Stamb]

Moving things to the reserve under some conditions may be possible, but if arrival from reserve uses the same calculations, than you could end up with no units unless the entry hex is safely repositioned each turn.

Some units directly arrive into the reserve, without going to the map first. Maybe same can be done to HQ/NKPS?

[Joel Billings]

Thanks for the saves.

If we are speaking about the 37th Army HQ that just arrived on turn 8 in that bad position, then I need the Axis pre-log turn 8 save so I can see the situation just before the Soviet logistics phase for turn 8 when the unit arrives. It was due to arrive in Brovary, next to Kiev, which was enemy occupied. Any chance you can get that pre-log save from your opponent?

If we are talking about the Bryansk Front arriving on turn 9, I ideally need the Axis pre-log turn 9 save, and the Soviet turn 9 save. That allows me to load in the Axis pre-log and see the situation before the Soviet turn 9 when the Bryansk front arrives. Using the save, I could only advance up to Bryansk using the saves provided (could not take it), and the Bryansk HQ arrived in the hex behind Bryansk (Bryansk had 3 units in it, so arrived where expected in this case). So in this game I assume you didn't lose Bryansk and vicinity before the unit arrived.

[Stamb]

Unfortunately my opponent can't find pre log saves.

As for the Bryansk front with 0 MPs - it was another server game that ended.
In current game there were no enemy units nearby when it arrived and no problems with it.

[Stamb]

Here is start of Axis t7
you can move few units to match starting Axis position during Soviet turn 8

Axis_turn_7.rar

(2.02 MiB) Downloaded 1 time

[Joel Billings]

I need pre-log 8 which comes after Axis turn 8. I can try with Axis turn 8 to move a few units and advance the game if you can send that. The sequence of saves is:

Axis turn 8
Axis prelog 8
Soviet turn 8
Soviet prelog 8
Axis turn 9
Axis prelog 9
Sov turn 9
Sov prelog 9

So to see how the 37th army arrives on Soviet turn 8, I need Axis prelog 8 which is at the very end of the Axis turn. I can see how this can be confusing, because since it is listed as Axis prelog, you might think it's coming before the Axis turn, but actually it's at the end of the Axis turn and pre the Soviet logistics phase.

Joel

[Stamb]

Axis_turn_8.rar

(2.05 MiB) Downloaded 6 times

[Joel Billings]

Thanks. Was able to duplicate arrival of the 37th Army on turn 8 to the location in the screenshot. It attempts to arrive a few hexes away in an enemy occupied hex, and searches for another place to arrive, landing in the difficult location. Will have Pavel look to see if there is something that can be done to improve this situation. Arrival of NKPS is another issue, and probably best solved via changing arrival to a specific hex in the scenario data (something northeast of Moscow?). Will see if we can improve that. You mentioned Bryansk Front arriving with 0 MP. I can't explain that without a save.

[Denniss]

maybe use national reserve arrival hex if sheduled point of arrival is occupied or isolated. dont know how this works in small scenarios though