Mech Recon Sections

[Wiedrock]

Three things about Mech Recons.

1. I couldn't find a KSTN of them having 8Men Squads. All I found were 12Men Squads with 2 SdKfz which then are divided in two (so 2x6Men).
2. The system lacks them, 50% of total Production is MISS.
3. As noted for the SP Flak, here also no substitution at all being set while IRL you'd just have used a more basic replacement.

---

1. This is what's ingame. All the German/Rumanian Mech Recons are Squads comprised of 8Men.

   

   PzRecon.png (285.89 KiB) Viewed 770 times

   Now this is what the KSTNs look like:

   

   PzReconKSTN1.png (107.43 KiB) Viewed 770 times

   All those using the Sdkfz 250 are 36Squad-Men Platoons with 3 Squads and 6 vehicles.
   • 1.11.1941 & 1.11.1943: https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1113gp1nov41.htm
   • 1.4.1944: https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1 ... 1apr44.htm
   • 1.11.1944: https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1 ... 1nov44.htm
   • 1.7.1944 (this one is special, not the norm, using a Inf KSTN essentially as recon. Using 251 instead of 250 [251 can carry more Men]): https://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1 ... 1jul44.htm
   So from seeing this, I don't know how the Squad became a 8Men Squad.

   ---

2. Here you can see that the game lacks this kind of Squad, pretty early already and it remains an issue. I don't see why one would not have replaced such a Section with another Motorized Section if one would have run out of SdKfz 250s. That exactly this took place one sees in the plenty of different TOEs units had.

   

   Mech-recon-missing.png (214.48 KiB) Viewed 770 times

   ---

3. Now the Question is if/how to set up an Substitution. For some reason the ID88 Mech Recon and the ID89 Ligth Infantry both fullfill the needs of "Recon"....but there are plenty of other Recon-named Squads in other categories.
   For German side it'd be the best to set a substitution to the "Mot. Recon Sections", those have 6Men Squads and are motorized, so would suit well, BUT they are Type "Motorized Infantry". So this therefore excludes them from being a Substitution or the slot would be swarmed with Mot. Infantry....sadly.
   Next Option could be the Motorcycle Squad, but there we face the issue of them being 12Men Squads. But at least they have their own "Type" and those could be used for German, RUM and SU similarly.

   

   Substitutions_reconmech.png (1.37 MiB) Viewed 770 times

[Wiedrock]

I've tried using one of the old/WITW Ground types.
The Recon Jeep seemed appropriate, it's "Mech Inf" but this small 6Men Recon Squads were wither VW/"Jeeped", Motorcycled or Tracked with usage of Kettenkrads. Here one Result, RNG gave varying results ofc, but what stood out was the low usage of kar98 for the Jeep Type, other than that it worked fine, so moving those 6-Men Recons to be Jeep works just fine as a replacement for Mech Recon.

[Wiedrock]

ID:425 Panzer Recon Section 42 (GER - Manpower 8→6, Load Cost 30→29, Ammo Use 11, Kar 98k -1)
ID:426 Panzer Recon Section 43 (GER - Manpower 8→6, Load Cost 28→27, Ammo Use 23, Kar 98k -2)

Applied to all TOEs, changed Support according to the list (the list uses "current" vanilla values for support, some TOEs have already been changed).

Code: Select all

id	name		suffix	"currentSupport" → "NEW SUPPORT"
40	42b Tier 1	Panzer Division	538	→	540
41	42c Tier 1	Panzer Division	538	→	540
42	43a Tier 1	Panzer Division	555	→	559
43	43b Tier 1	Panzer Division	555	→	559
44	44 Tier 1	Panzer Division	488	→	492
45	45 Tier 1	Panzer Division	488	→	492
49	42b Tier 2	Panzer Division	538	→	540
50	42c Tier 2	Panzer Division	538	→	540
51	43a Tier 2	Panzer Division	555	→	557
52	43b Tier 2	Panzer Division	555	→	557
53	44 Tier 2	Panzer Division	488	→	490
58	42b Tier 3	Panzer Division	538	→	540
59	42c Tier 3	Panzer Division	538	→	540
60	43a Tier 3	Panzer Division	555	→	559
61	43b Tier 3	Panzer Division	555	→	557
62	44 Tier 3	Panzer Division	488	→	490
63	45 Tier 3	Panzer Division	488	→	490
74	43b Tier 4	Panzer Division	555	→	557
75	44 Tier 4	Panzer Division	488	→	490
76	45 Tier 4	Panzer Division	488	→	490
82	43 Afrika	Panzer Division	555	→	557
88	44 Beute	Panzer Division	488	→	492
90	43	Reserve Panzer Division	330	→	332
93	44 Lehr	Panzer Division	488	→	492
102	44a	Panzer Brigade	X	→	X (was changed already, and another TOE added - no changes)
144	42	Heavy Panzer Battalion	X	→	X (was changed already with this in mind)
145	43	Heavy Panzer Battalion	X	→	X (was changed already with this in mind)
146	44	Heavy Panzer Battalion	X	→	X (was changed already with this in mind)
254	43a Tier 1	Panzergrenadier Division	477	→	481
255	43b Tier 1	Panzergrenadier Division	477	→	481
256	44 Tier 1	Panzergrenadier Division	494	→	498
268	42c	Mot. Light Afrika Division	518	→	520
271	42a GD	Motorized Division	599	→	601
272	42b GD	Motorized Division	599	→	601
273	43a GD	Motorized Division	650	→	652
274	43b GD	Panzergrenadier Division	650	→	652
275	43c GD	Panzergrenadier Division	710	→	712
276	44 GD	Panzergrenadier Division	701	→	705
277	45 GD	Panzergrenadier Division	650	→	654
280	44 Brandenburg	Panzergrenadier Division	494	→	498
287	45 FB	Panzergrenadier Division	494	→	495
290	45 FG	Panzergrenadier Brigade	320	→	321
291	45 FG	Panzergrenadier Division	494	→	495
730	45	Cavalry Brigade	273	→	275
731	45	Cavalry Division	411	→	413
753	42	Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion	24	→	26
754	43a	Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion	24	→	28
755	43b	Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion	24	→	26
756	44	Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion	24	→	26
984	43 HG	Panzer Division	545	→	547
985	44 HG	Panzer Division	407	→	409
986	44 HG	Fallschirm Panzer Division	407	→	409
987	44 HG	Fallschirm Nr.1 Panzer Division	407	→	409
989	44 HG	Fallschirm Nr.2 PzG Division	407	→	409
1117	42b LAH SS	Motorized Brigade	350	→	352
1118	42 LAH SS	Motorized Division	532	→	534
1119	42 LAH SS	Panzergrenadier Division	562	→	564
1120	43 LAH SS	Panzergrenadier Division	562	→	564
1121	43 LAH SS	Panzer Division	612	→	614
1122	44 LAH SS	Panzer Division	588	→	592
1123	45 LAH SS	Panzer Division	378	→	380
1147	43 SS Type 1	Panzergrenadier Division	532	→	534
1148	43 SS	Panzer Division	532	→	534
1149	44 SS	Panzer Division	532	→	536
1150	45 SS	Panzer Division	378	→	382
1154	44 SS Type 2	Panzergrenadier Division	477	→	479
1166	44 SS Type 1	Mountain Division	355	→	356

[MechFO]

Three things about Mech Recons.

1. I couldn't find a KSTN of them having 8Men Squads. All I found were 12Men Squads with 2 SdKfz which then are divided in two (so 2x6Men).

There were also (mittlere) Panzeraufklärungs a bit further down in your links

Panzergrenadierkompanie (gepanzert) (freie Gliederung)

oder

Panzeraufklärungskompanie (gepanzert) (freie Gliederung)

K.St.N.1114c (gp) (fG) (1.7.1944)

Normal Panzer Gren organisation. This is probably the m Panzeraufklärungs Kp mentioned in this KTB

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

I've certainly seen organisations that do not only consist of a leichte Kp.

[Wiedrock]

Three things about Mech Recons.

1. I couldn't find a KSTN of them having 8Men Squads. All I found were 12Men Squads with 2 SdKfz which then are divided in two (so 2x6Men).

There were also (mittlere) Panzeraufklärungs a bit further down in your links

Panzergrenadierkompanie (gepanzert) (freie Gliederung)

oder

Panzeraufklärungskompanie (gepanzert) (freie Gliederung)

K.St.N.1114c (gp) (fG) (1.7.1944)

Normal Panzer Gren organisation. This is probably the m Panzeraufklärungs Kp mentioned in this KTB

https://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/ ... ect/zoom/6

I've certainly seen organisations that do not only consist of a leichte Kp.

The thing is,

1. that the game only uses 250s for "recons".
2. that until 1944 there seems to only have been the 250 setup being used. e.g. 1943 when they streamlined PzDiv they still only used 250s. It only pops up in 1944 from what I know/have seen so far.
3. that the 251's Squad is essentially a normal Panzergrenadier Squad. So what you would add is a regular Panzergrenadier Squad with 10Men when inside this Company, so all that'd be missing is the naming "recon".

So to me there's no reason to have 8Men from the start when the 10Men only becomes available in 1944 (at least mostly/officially).
I know there's more "issues" like that, as in using 1x12Men Panzergrenadier Squads when there's actually been 2x6Men "Sub"Squads and so on - this generally makes sense concerning how brittle those IFVs are. And it's understandable that compromises have to be made, but this specific "6 becomes 8" does not make sense to me when you can just add the proper 10Men instead by using the regular Panzergrenadier Squad.