Panzers vs The Bear: A WitE2 MP AAR (Axis Perspective)

[cartman101]

One thing I'm kinda "meh" about is the control not automatically changing for isolated territories with no enemies in them. Will we at least get additional rear echelon type units that will follow the main thrust? Or will the base security units be all that's available?

[821Bobo]

Only the base security units, and they are anyway needed in the Garrison TB to keep partisans under control. So in reality you will need to use normal infantry units(or whatever you will have on hand) to flip big chunk of territories(like the marches).
Personally I think this is better approach than the auto convert in WitE.

[Anonymous]

[Deleted by Admins]

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Is the giant Lvov pocket still possible by diverting elements from AGC to AGS on turn 1?

[821Bobo]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

Is the giant Lvov pocket still possible by diverting elements from AGC to AGS on turn 1?

I don't think so but I never tried it. Did quick test and this is furthest you can get with Guderian's Panzers.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

I don't think so but I never tried it. Did quick test and this is furthest you can get with Guderian's Panzers.

Thanks, appreciate the quick test.

[821Bobo]

Turn 6, 27.7.1941

This is second consecutive turn without negative events from Theater boxes, seems the situation did stabilise. However the same applies for the Soviets.

AGN

Thanks to the Peipus lake around 10 Soviet divisions ended in pocket. One regiment crossed the Luga, as there was no defense in place. However only one regiment holding the bridgehead won't be enough.
In Estonia enemy is delaying with only few units and it is surprisingly effective (I am sure Tim doesn't see it this way).




AGC

Smolensk has not been relieved this week but Soviets are resupplying the fortress by air using around 100 Li-2. Some have been shot down but I need to bring more Bf-109 into the fight. I have a bad feeling that the Smolensk fortress will manage to tie up many of my infantry.

Both Panzer groups made some gains in bad terrain but nothing spectacular. At least reaching the open terrain east of Bryansk is promising.




AGS

In the south Panzers unleashed from the small bridgehead, taking Poltava. I am using the rivers to cover my flanks as at this point a single regiment is no match for Soviet counterattacks.

Now I am not sure if I should go north to help Guderian or towards the Donbass.




Next week, according to the forecast, rain again. Can only hope for compensation in winter and fewer weeks with Blizzard.




This shows the evolution of the OOB since the war start. Soviet strength is climbing up and already they have more men in field then they had on June 22nd. I used only 'on map' filter but there are lot of other options in the Metrics screen.

[MAS]

Questions please: 1) Is AGN's FBD in Pskov acting as a 'super depot' with 18th Army HQ? 2) Where are AGC's FBD's at? 3) Did GloriousRuse leave the Dnepr undefended between Kiev and Cherkassy?

It looks like 6th Army could pocket Kiev by itself, with plenty of time left to get the 6 bonus points. It will be fascinating to see GloriousRuse's reaction on this whole front.

For your part, I can't see 1st PzGrp being able to extend much farther north towards Guderian both because of logistical distance to rails, and it's flanks extending from weak to really weak. Thanks for your AARs!

[MAS]

Sorry, thought of another quick question. In the Metrics screenshot, is the Soviet manpower # true, or is there FOW involved? Foreign Armies East was notoriously poor at prognosticating Soviet strength. Thanks!

[821Bobo]

1) Yes, army(or group HQ) are doubling depot capacity
2) Vitebsk and Gomel
3) Yes he surrounded the Dnepr bridgehead with all the units that were previously more north

And the manpower # should be accurate

[EddyBear81]

I always found it weird that the enemy # numbers are 100% accurate. It takes away a key FoW / intel aspect of the war, ie. underestimation of Soviet forces by OKH (as MAS mentioned)

Could there be a level of randomization added ?

[loki100]

ORIGINAL: EddyBear81

I always found it weird that the enemy # numbers are 100% accurate. It takes away a key FoW / intel aspect of the war, ie. underestimation of Soviet forces by OKH (as MAS mentioned)

Could there be a level of randomization added ?

It doesn't really tell you that much, in that the numbers can mask a lot of variables. If I recall (& I'm going by Erikson's older work here) FHEE were actually pretty good at getting the numbers right, what the Germans got wrong was the capacity?

For the Soviet player, I track the Axis reserve as it gives me a rough feel for build up and how they are refitting. But again its worth remembering that the Soviets had first rate intelligence on the German war production. There were a lot of Communists among the (involuntary) workforce and the NKVD put a lot of emphasis on things like identification numbers being passed out - this allowed the Soviets to estimate destruction rates pretty accurately. So knowing that a factory had received a plane with a set of part numbers to repair could tell you a lot.

They passed some of this to British statisticians who used it to estimate how many Tigers the Germans really had (as opposed to the claims in combat reports) and their estimate was only a few out of the actual number when checked post war.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

I am very skeptical about this. This looks a lot like the nonsense that happens in WitE1. Reaching Poltava on turn 6 is simply absurd. In the real war, the Germans got barely past Kharkov. If the logistic system is so much improved in WitE2, why is something like this even possible?

[821Bobo]

Turn 7, 03.8.1941

During their move, the enemy launched series of attacks, routed one SS brigade and that regiment which crossed Luga and pushed back multiple other units, even a stack of Panzer and Motorized division. Only positive from this sequence is over 500 Soviet planes shot down during these attacks for loss of 18 mine's.



2nd Panzer Group has been severely beaten and cut off. An operational break is needed.




AGN

This week only very limited advance in all sectors.

Rain in north. Most effort was aimed at eliminating the pocket and that goal have been mostly fulfilled.




AGC

3rd Panzer Group is resting, 2nd Panzer Group too but due to the lack of infantry I can't pull them from contact line.

2nd Army is gathering around Smolensk and getting ready to storm the city.

I finally managed to move Luftwaffe to the front (and secure supplies for them) as can be seen in the screenshot.




AGS

Only small gains in south too. Notable events were isolating Kiev and a small pocket at Krivoi Rog. I did bother with it only because 3 cavalry divisions routed there so that is one less cavalry corps in winter.

1st Mountain Division reached the gates of Dnepropetrovsk just to find out enemy turned the city to yet another fortress.



Due to the considerable Soviet resistance in the north and around Smolensk, resulting in railheads reaching the front lines, I decided to use new game feature - 'super depot' at Pskov and Vitebsk. Quoting the manual

In addition if a NKPS or FBD rail repair unit spends the entire turn (and uses no movement points) on a depot then this will greatly increase freight deliveries to that depot in the next logistics phase. Note that this may reduce the allocation to nearby depots as it ensures the chosen depot has priority for deliveries.

While other depots received only between 6000 and 10000 tons of freight, Pskov and Vitebsk gained nearly 30000 tons.

[MAS]

Hello and thank you! A few questions please:

1) I don't see an FBD stacked with 18th Army at Pskov. Is this because you can "attach" it to the depot, thereby taking it off the map?

2) I can't see the stack at Vitebsk, but it appears the FBD may be stacked with the 9th Army HQ to create a 'super depot' there?

3) Your last screenshot shows that the 29,948 tons of freight received is only 74% of requirements. So despite it's 'super depot' status, is it still inadequate for all the formations that may be using Vitebsk as a source? 3a) And even then, due to the distance, the receiving formations are having to use 13,358 of their own trucks to move supply to the front? 3b) It shows 2,954 tons of freight lost (10% of received!). Is this due to VVS attacks? And if so, is it interdiction or rail marshalling yard missions, or is this just standard "friction"?

4) Can you give us an idea of PzGrp2's supply situation (maybe a screenshot)? Since they were temporarily cut off, and the lead division is approximately 280 miles from Vitebsk, I would think their fuel tanks are about empty. Earlier in this thread you had mentioned your other AGC FBD was at Gomel, so I'm not sure what that distance is.

Thanks much!

[rmeckman]

I continue to be confused about how railyard capacity is represented in WiTE2. In turn 7 the Vitebsk railyard is shown as having a capacity of Rail 9800 : 4900. Its nominal capacity is 4900 tons/week, but the phasing player actually gets 9800 tons/week to use during the current turn. Is there a real-world logistics advantage that is being simulated by making the actual capacity double the nominal capacity? Does this doubling of capacity ever disappear? The most recent version of WiTW also shows this doubling even though the codes for the games forked some years back.

[821Bobo]

ORIGINAL: MAS

Hello and thank you! A few questions please:

1) I don't see an FBD stacked with 18th Army at Pskov. Is this because you can "attach" it to the depot, thereby taking it off the map?

2) I can't see the stack at Vitebsk, but it appears the FBD may be stacked with the 9th Army HQ to create a 'super depot' there?

3) Your last screenshot shows that the 29,948 tons of freight received is only 74% of requirements. So despite it's 'super depot' status, is it still inadequate for all the formations that may be using Vitebsk as a source? 3a) And even then, due to the distance, the receiving formations are having to use 13,358 of their own trucks to move supply to the front? 3b) It shows 2,954 tons of freight lost (10% of received!). Is this due to VVS attacks? And if so, is it interdiction or rail marshalling yard missions, or is this just standard "friction"?

4) Can you give us an idea of PzGrp2's supply situation (maybe a screenshot)? Since they were temporarily cut off, and the lead division is approximately 280 miles from Vitebsk, I would think their fuel tanks are about empty. Earlier in this thread you had mentioned your other AGC FBD was at Gomel, so I'm not sure what that distance is.

Thanks much!

1. No, you can't attach it to depot. Axis logistic is after Soviet movement so the FBD must be sitting in hex during your previous movement phase(in this case T6). As I already cleared the rail I moved it forward from Pskov but the effect of supply boost is this turn.

2. FBD is still in Vitebsk but under the army HQ counter therefore not very visible. Those AOGs over the stack doesn't help too.

3. Yes but I gave Panzers supply priority 4, other formations have lower therefore mobile units got enough.
You lose some freight to standard friction, partisans causing losses as well and interdiction too.

4. Guderian is supplied from Minsk and Vitebsk. Those cut off units have around 50% of fuel from previous week as I did not burn all. Screenshot shows from where is 900 Lehr pulling supply.

edited point 4

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

I am very skeptical about this. This looks a lot like the nonsense that happens in WitE1. Reaching Poltava on turn 6 is simply absurd. In the real war, the Germans got barely past Kharkov. If the logistic system is so much improved in WitE2, why is something like this even possible?

I share Bozo's concerns... Bryansk and Poltava this early in August? There's definitely some fine-tuning to be done still?

[MAS]

Thanks Robert!

[MAS]

I believe it's due to the presence of the 9th army HQ and an FBD creating a "super depot", but I'm just guessing based on what I think I've read in these posts. I don't understand how a 9800 tons freight capacity can actually receive 29,948 tons.