Express to Valhalla GC41 M60 (Axis) vs MSAG (Sov) MSAG welcome

[M60A3TTS]

Looks like you are doing very well overall but particularly in the south. Look forward to seeing the next few turns.

How many turns behind is the game? Is it too much to ask to see your rail lines?

I currently have turn 20, so 9 ahead at the moment but we just did like 3 mud turns in quick succession.

Rail lines

[Hardradi]

I currently have turn 20, so 9 ahead at the moment but we just did like 3 mud turns in quick succession.

Thanks. I thought you might be really stretched in certain areas with such rapid progress, as shown in the Kursk bulge image, etc. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

[ToxicThug11]

Awesome AAR, enjoying observing.
What are you using to draw your battle plans so cleanly?

[Killmaster851]

Reading this AAR makes me feel happy inside

[M60A3TTS]

Awesome AAR, enjoying observing.
What are you using to draw your battle plans so cleanly?

Thanks. The basic screenshot is your everyday MS Paint. I use Paint.net for map shots that need arrows and the like because that program has more and far better options.

[M60A3TTS]

Reading this AAR makes me feel happy inside

Merci.

[M60A3TTS]

Week 12 7-13 Sep 41

Clear weather across the front for the second straight week.

North

--Von Leeb reports only minor gains in a few places along his front. He continues to maintain any large scale breakthrough is impossible due to the difficult terrain and forces arrayed against him. He reports at least thirty five Russian front line rifle divisions with likely another dozen at least in secondary positions from the Gulf of Finland to the northern tip of Lake Ilmen, a front consisting of four hundred fifty kilometers. All of these are arrayed in the defense of Leningrad.




Center

--Von Bock reports Hoth is making continued progress east of Smolensk with Panzer Group 3 and is approaching Sukhinichi. There are an as yet undetermined number of divisions between the two panzer groups of the Army Group but Guderian is becoming increasingly pessimistic that a link up can be achieved. Fahrmbacher’s 7th Corps of 4th Army has been sent into the 2nd Panzer Group’s area of operations but even that apparently is insufficient for Guderian who is demanding still more assistance from Von Bock. We need to settle this matter quickly before it brews up into something more damaging. Guderian should not have to be reminded of his place within the chain of command at this critical juncture.



--Felber’s 13th Corps, 4th Army forces the surrender of yet another militia division, this one the sole defender of Kursk.




South

--North of Kharkov, two more sacrificial militia divisions allow themselves to be surrounded. Elements of Panzer Group 1 are outside Belgorod.

--6th Army now has a bridgehead over the Donets east of Kharkov.



--The remainder of Panzer Group 1 in the Stalino area manage to surround the city itself and have four or five divisions surrounded. Russian armor appears to be gathering north of the city, possibly preparing for future counterattacks. As I noted previously there is precious little airpower to support operations here as everything of value is being directed towards the Crimean operations.



--In the Crimea, Model continues to make progress. He is now driving a wedge between the Russian defenders in the area of Sevastopol and Yalta. He appears to be facing elements of two armies, the 18th and Coastal.



Air operations now under way in the surrounding waters of the Crimea.


Qu. Gen Wagner reports the following stockpiles of supplies in (non-NSS) depots

Germany 600,845 tons
Poland 206,858 tons
Rumania 56,874 tons
Soviet Union 69,884 tons

Total: 934,461 tons

OOB


Ground Losses


Some rail repair activities. Our truck supply columns are still being forced to navigate extreme distances from virtually all our front line depots as rail repair units continue to struggle keeping pace with the advance everywhere south of Smolensk. Almost sixty nine thousand supply vehicles are currently in repair facilities.



Things appear to be heating up in the Atlantic as the American Navy now has orders to shoot on sight any ships threatening their merchant vessels and convoys. The Fuhrer is of the opinion that war with the United States is coming, it is mainly a matter of when. He believes we will not be able to sit idly by indefinitely while America arms our opponents in the field.

[Stamb]

Can you also share losses for the OKH?

[M60A3TTS]

Week 13 14-21 September 1941

Clear weather across the front for the third straight week, but the forecast is for rain across most of the front in the following week. Those who served in Russia during the last war are well aware of the significant rainfall that must be expected, as well as its impact on our already difficult supply situation. We now face a Russian army almost as large as our own, excluding our allies. It is all too apparent that the fundamental goal of Barbarossa has failed, and another operational plan must be devised, and quickly. Once the autumn rains bring fighting largely to a standstill, we will soon thereafter be confronted by the grim reality of fighting through a Russian winter.

It has been decided to strike for the city of Voronzeh. Here is where all the current Russian dive bomber production is concentrated and even forcing the manufacturing base from the city would disrupt their production for some time. We would also gain a significant supply point and transportation hub while denying the same to the Russians. In spite of the logistical challenges, there should be time to complete the operation before winter proper begins.

North

-- Consistent with the previous few weeks, only minor gains are made.


Center

--2nd and 3rd Panzer Groups find the Russians have fled the potential pocket in the area Sukhinichi and Orel and the city of Orel falls.


--Belgorod has been surrounded as elements of 4th, 6th and 2nd Panzer Armies begin their advance on Voronezh.


South

--4th Corps of 17th Army captured Stalino. Elements of Army Group South advance onto the Mius River line


--Model's 11th Army conducts several attacks in the vicinity of Sevastopol and Yalta. The Russian defenders are split into two groups so that each city can be taken in turn. Our naval patrols are not meeting any meaningful resistance, so it appears that only the weather will have a potential impact here.


Map forces info







MSAG will be out of position for the next 10 days, but he will still be playing albeit at a slower rate. We will see when I decide to post the next turn or two.

[loki100]

quite a lot coming together nicely for you in that turn apart from clearly being blocked at Leningrad (though he may have put too much there?)

going for Voronezh at this stage could be, in the words of Sir Humphry, a 'brave' decision.

And as ever, an enjoyable read

[ADB_Iceman]

quite a lot coming together nicely for you in that turn apart from clearly being blocked at Leningrad (though he may have put too much there?)

going for Voronezh at this stage could be, in the words of Sir Humphry, a 'brave' decision.

And as ever, an enjoyable read

I also see that the overloading of Leningrad is strategically enabling the drive to Voronezh. But as Loki alludes to in his post -- it might be a strategy to just let the Germans drive past all feasible supply and then counterattack.

I think a comment very early on by M60 rings true. There is a lot of manpower within the Southern front that combined with Soviet losses makes a southern strategy quite viable. You cannot counterattack with nothing ...

It will be interesting to see play out. M60's style always is a great read.

[xhoel]

Great read, am enjoying the AAR!

Agree with the other commentators that the Soviets seem to have deployed a lot of units in the North especially at the tip of your advance. Am wondering if there are any plans to reroute the 4th Panzer Army further to the south and attempt to shorten your front (see attached image). Hitting the sector where the 2 Naval Brigades are would threaten the Soviets by rolling up their flank. At that point they will have to retreat or risk encirclement. Goes without saying that for this to succeed you have to be very careful when building up the assault forces. If the Soviets detect a big buildup and reinforce the location, it wont work.

Point being that you need that difficult terrain in your hands for later on. If the Soviets are allowed to hold such forward staging positions it doesnt bode well during the winter.

[M60A3TTS]

Week 14 21-27 September 1941

Rain and mud across almost the entire front, except for a small portion of the far south and the Crimea.

OKL arranged for one Ju52 unit in Norway to be transferring to reserves. It can later be moved into Russia to assist in resupply efforts.

2 Rumanian infantry divisions were committed to the SU garrison to replace the two RFSS motorized brigades.

North

--Static warfare rapidly settling in with many Russian units firmly holding out in swamps and heavy woods. Little progress made here this week.



Center

--In the preceding week we had identified approximately four cavalry and one tank division operating in the Voronezh area. This week a major crisis developed as some thirty-two Russian divisions in six armies launched strong counterattacks here. The 17th and 18th Panzer Divisions of Panzer Group 2 were overrun and routed.



Following this, much of Von Schweppenburg’s 24th Motorized Corps, 2nd Panzer Group was enveloped.



While we had hoped that Colonel General Guderian was now accepting of the need for harmony with Von Bock, he apparently complained bitterly to the latter that his warnings for the need of adequately supporting the panzer group had fallen on deaf ears.

Regardless of the truth in any of this, Guderian was ordered by OKH to conduct joint operations with elements of Von Kluge’s 4th Army. These operations subsequently enjoyed considerable success and in turn freed 24th Motorized Corps and put many of the attacking Russian divisions to flight.















Our preliminary estimates are over a thousand enemy fighting vehicles have been wrecked, a number not seen since the opening weeks of Barbarossa.



It is regrettable that none of these enemy divisions were surrounded, but many of the armor formations of the Russian 10th Army (Vatutin) have seen their equipment numbers severely depleted. We cannot say at this early stage if the capture of Voronezh is now a questionable proposition, but we are moving forward. Von Bock now believes many of these Russian divisions will be hors-de-combat for weeks, and retains confidence that he will succeed. Returning to the matter of Guderian briefly, the Fuhrer questioned whether he and Von Bock should be recalled for “consultations” but given the need for continued steady hands over the Voronezh operation in this turbulent moment this was seen as inadvisable. We will have to hope one of the heroes of the French 1940 campaign can reign in his excitability before he finds himself no longer leading a panzer group.

--Farther south, Belgorod fell to Vierow's 55th Corps, 6th Army. It had been defended by a mechanized and rifle division. The 240th Mechanized Division only possessed 35 tanks, and we continue to see evidence that the Russians are gradually seeing their tank numbers dwindling.



The advance in the direction of Tula continued by elements of Panzer Groups 2 and 3.



South

--Operations in the vicinity of Stalino continue.



--Major success as Sevastopol fell this week to Weiss and his 30th Corps. Yalta up next and now naval patrols will only be required at one port. This good news could not have come sooner as the weather will eventually hinder air operations in the area. Best to get things finished up in order to free 11th Army for duty elsewhere.



Overall, air losses were heavy, nearly 350 aircraft, between supporting the Crimean campaign and supporting the Voronezh operations. These losses will have to be made good and there is no reason to believe that they won't, although the days of good weather with ideal flying conditions may be behind us.

[M60A3TTS]

quite a lot coming together nicely for you in that turn apart from clearly being blocked at Leningrad (though he may have put too much there?)

going for Voronezh at this stage could be, in the words of Sir Humphry, a 'brave' decision.

And as ever, an enjoyable read

I also see that the overloading of Leningrad is strategically enabling the drive to Voronezh. But as Loki alludes to in his post -- it might be a strategy to just let the Germans drive past all feasible supply and then counterattack.

I think a comment very early on by M60 rings true. There is a lot of manpower within the Southern front that combined with Soviet losses makes a southern strategy quite viable. You cannot counterattack with nothing ...

It will be interesting to see play out. M60's style always is a great read.

If MSAG intended to put enough divisions in front of Leningrad to thwart my designs in that direction, I'd concede he has been successful to this point. Whether he has too much there, we can debate when the war is over. As far as Soviet counterattacks go, the manpower will almost always be there for the Soviet player. If not now, then by first winter certainly. If I had to guess, he's probably seeing 80-85k manpower come in each week just from manpower centers and not including normal reinforcements. Then the 500k manpower event will arrive in due time.

The move on Voronezh just seems to make sense. I'll leave the question of holding it for any length of time unanswered. But there are 11 turns to first winter, and I'm already pretty close. To just shut things down around Kursk-Belgorod at this stage seems premature. As this last turn clearly shows, there are still ample opportunities to take the Red Army behind the woodshed and administer a good whacking.

[M60A3TTS]

Great read, am enjoying the AAR!

Agree with the other commentators that the Soviets seem to have deployed a lot of units in the North especially at the tip of your advance. Am wondering if there are any plans to reroute the 4th Panzer Army further to the south and attempt to shorten your front (see attached image). Hitting the sector where the 2 Naval Brigades are would threaten the Soviets by rolling up their flank. At that point they will have to retreat or risk encirclement. Goes without saying that for this to succeed you have to be very careful when building up the assault forces. If the Soviets detect a big buildup and reinforce the location, it wont work.

Point being that you need that difficult terrain in your hands for later on. If the Soviets are allowed to hold such forward staging positions it doesn't bode well during the winter.

Thanks. Not surprisingly, you identified what was probably the biggest flaw in my planning. The most direct route that we'll call the eastern axis, is most easily defended. Walling it off with three divisions per hex and rotating through fresh units with full CPP can be an effective strategy if the units can arrive on time and here they did. The route you suggest, the western axis, is a more roundabout path and requires the advance to move in the northeasterly direction, literally cutting across in front of the Neva in order to cut Leningrad off.

I really don't have the forces for a large buildup on the western axis while holding the eastern one, so in the most recent turns yet to be accounted for, I've only made minor forays in that direction and here again the pile is not moving much. How problematic this will be come winter, we'll just have to see. That said, I'm not exactly sitting out in the open either.

[Jango32]

I suspect that most players expect the main thrust beyond Pskov to be through Novgorod. So with a well supplied Panzergroup you can probably cut westward into the poorly defended light woods and threaten Leningrad directly in the early turns.

[loki100]

...

I really don't have the forces for a large buildup on the western axis while holding the eastern one, so in the most recent turns yet to be accounted for, I've only made minor forays in that direction and here again the pile is not moving much. How problematic this will be come winter, we'll just have to see. That said, I'm not exactly sitting out in the open either.

at one stage in testing I had a HtH game where 1941 ended with a massive Soviet bulge down towards Pskov and me holding Novgorod. Now this was many iterations of the game engine back but the Soviet player couldn't exploit the situation as he couldn't get much supply into that sector so my recollection was it was quiet all winter. After the game ended (incompatible patch) we discussed it and he agreed that it would have been better to pull back to where the supply was and then attack as opposed to being locked in place.

which is a not overly valuable mumble that MSAG may well end up holding a lot of terrain but not able to exploit.

add on, if you are close to your depots, I now think the winter is a bit of a non-event - though that depends significantly on the pattern/frequency of blizzards

[M60A3TTS]

Week 15 28 September- 4 October 1941

Rain across the entire front accompanied by much light mud from Leningrad to the Crimea. We are seeing little evidence that the weather will improve in the coming weeks.

North
A few local attacks only and even these are only half successful. It is clear that Army Group North will need some time to rest and pull in a fresh reserve in order to make any progress.



Center

Good progress by Hoth and Guderian towards Tula against the Russian 21st and 29th Armies (Efremov/Korzun). Efremov was reportedly killed in action him near the town of Dugna west of Tula, General Boldin replacing him.



Von Kluge and Guderian make similarly good progress advancing on Voronezh. Here much of the fighting is against Russian cavalry divisions from multiple Russian armies that our infantry have little trouble with. There is no real evidence that the enemy will put up a fight for this city as it seems no better garrisoned than any of the others encountered throughout the campaign.



South

In the Stalino area, 1st Panzer Group and 17th Armies are in action against tank and motorized forces of the Russian 6th and 16th Armies (Rokossovsky/Tolbukhin). Our forces here have fresh orders to secure the city of Voroshilovgrad.



Rail repair is advancing at a good rate towards Stalino. It will be important for the upcoming winter to bring as many rail depots as possible into a functional state.



In the Crimea, Model continues to resupply his forces while slowly tightening the noose around Yalta.

OOB



Destroyed units

[M60A3TTS]

Week 16 5-11 October 1941

Rain across much of the front, but we can be thankful that a break in the weather is taking place in the broader area around Voronezh. Von Bock sees no difficulty in keeping to the plan of advancing on and then capturing the city. Still, we must now move forward with all speed in preparation for winter operations. The focus on strengthening the rail network will be paramount here as we can expect significant to severe supply shortages during the worst of the winter weather conditions.

North

Army Group North conducts limited attacks this week in order to allow for rest and resupply of reserve units.



Center

Heinrici’s 43rd Corps assisted by 18th Motorized and 2nd Panzer Division make the first effort to encircle Tula. This will be a multi-week operation but Von Bock is convinced that we have sufficient forces to gain control of the city.



In the Voronezh area everything appears on track. 1st Cavalry Division crosses east of the Voronezh River while 17th and 78th Infantry Divisions of Brandenberger’s 13th Corps are over the Don River just north of the city. At the same time Von Vietinghoff’s 46th Motorized Corps of 1st Panzer Group along with Von Schweppenburg’s 24th Motorized Corps of 2nd Panzer Group are south of Voronezh and advancing eastwards against only token opposition.



South

Around Stalino only a few battles take place but Voroshilovgrad is captured. There are clearly Russian tank units in this area that will have to be dealt with at some point. Rail repair completes a connection to Stalino this week, so in that respect things may improve from a logistics standpoint fairly soon.



In the Crimea, Model is tightening things around Yalta with some units while the bulk of 11th Army rests and recovers from the Sevastopol operation.


OOB

[Hardradi]

I like the idea of cutting the rail at Svaboda, south of Vorenehz. From memory that leaves only two single tracks feeding into the Rostov region.

With regards to Leningrad, one advantage of the Novgorod route is that Lake Ilmen shields your eastern flank. This means less troops are required and you only have to clear a two hex penetration to get non-ZOC movement and non-ZOC positions. Its easier said than done against a strong position though.