The Sky’s the Limit- PBEM GC 41 jubjub (Axis) vs. M60A3TTS (Soviet)

[M60A3TTS]

Which mod are you using for the map?

Regards.

GeneralsMap

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 0&t=369410

[Leumas06]

Thanks

[M60A3TTS]

Week 50 31 May 1942

Ground update

The last day of May and start of June sees Axis forces continuing to advance both north and south.

Losses in the Leningrad area are 34,000 as the Red Army forces of General Gerasimenko’s 4th Shock Army are driven back into the city of Leningrad for the final stand. Four of our rifle divisions lay down their arms.






At Stalingrad, Werner Kempf’s XXXXVIII Motorized Corps with Stukas joining in continue to make progress towards the city, assisted by Freissner’s XVII Corps to the west of the city and Martinek’s VII Corps to the southeast. In all of these battles, Soviet ground forces are either routed or forced to retreat.




In the Caucasus along the Terek River and rough terrain further south, German forces including 16th Panzer Division push methodically with eyes on the oilfields beyond at Grozny.




In the area around Orel, forces of Central Front under G. Zhukov pound away at German positions bit by bit.


OOB


Ground Losses


Air Losses


Victory Points.


And we're only now starting into June...

[Sammy5IsAlive]

Wow, this is getting exciting! By my calculation if he takes Leningrad, Stalingrad and Grozny that gets him to 751VP (assuming no further event VPs) - is that right? So it looks like it might come down to a climactic battle of Stalingrad; perhaps in combination with your own offensive in the centre to add even more historic resonance.

Are your TBs maxed in terms of getting VP bonuses?

[M60A3TTS]

Wow, this is getting exciting! By my calculation if he takes Leningrad, Stalingrad and Grozny that gets him to 751VP (assuming no further event VPs) - is that right? So it looks like it might come down to a climactic battle of Stalingrad; perhaps in combination with your own offensive in the centre to add even more historic resonance.

Are your TBs maxed in terms of getting VP bonuses?

No, the TBs are generally in the 104% range. Just enough so I don't get caught short but at the same time can send out an occasional brigade or division.

[56ajax]

Hi, enjoying your air war 'philosophy'.

Very early on you stated

'Volga Air Command receives a very few number of formations due to go to the Northern Front on Week 12.'

What is the reason for this? Are they not just taking up airfield space? Why not send them to the Reserve asap or the NF for that matter?

Thx

[M60A3TTS]

Hi, enjoying your air war 'philosophy'.

Very early on you stated

'Volga Air Command receives a very few number of formations due to go to the Northern Front on Week 12.'

What is the reason for this? Are they not just taking up airfield space? Why not send them to the Reserve asap or the NF for that matter?

Thx

Excellent question.

In early game, I am keeping fighters out of the reserve because I don't want to lose the excess pilots when the regiments shrink in size on turns 7 and again on turn 12. I am also adding fighters to formations already on the map that I assign to this contrivance of mine, the Strategic Pilot Reserve, which are air formations parked in the Soviet hinterlands prior to turn 7 that can hold up to 67 pilots.

I then use the Commanders Report to assign extra fighter pilots to the SRP formations which can be used later to disband and distribute the experienced pilots from the Free Pool. I could assign them to the SR, but I am really trying to keep that empty in the early game and manage everything from the map.

Since formations going to the NF are going to lose the excess pilots on turns 7 and 12, just as if they went to the SR, I stuck the NF-bound units in the Volga Air Command to reduce the chance I would accidentally add pilots to these formations which were never going to be a part of the SPR. By the time turn 6 is at an end, before I send it to jubjub, I've stashed as many spare pilots as I can afford into the SPR formations where they remain until needed. Remember that from a pilot quality perspective, these guys are as good as the Soviet Air Force ever gets. After that, the trained pilots as a whole won't be as good until 1944 and even then you're still getting your share of poorly trained pilots.

As of the most recent turn being played in mid-1942, I still have about 1,800 pilots in the SPR. Only a low percent of them have experience level in the 20s and 30s, unlike the trained pilot pool that is rife with them with NM at 45.

With the most recent patch, a lot of this isn't as bad since excess pilots now get swept into the free pool, but my methodology is still a bit better IMHO, because I can control when pilots go to the Free Pool for use.

This is what the SPR currently looks like.

[Shupov]

I then use the Commanders Report to assign extra fighter pilots to the SRP formations which can be used later to disband and distribute the experienced pilots from the Free Pool.

Have you considered retraining some of these extra fighters as bombers? Manual section 30.10.6 suggests bomber loadouts with rockets can be useful in interdiction and some might convert to Yak-9T's having high maneuverability and decent bomb loads.

[M60A3TTS]

I then use the Commanders Report to assign extra fighter pilots to the SRP formations which can be used later to disband and distribute the experienced pilots from the Free Pool.

Have you considered retraining some of these extra fighters as bombers? Manual section 30.10.6 suggests bomber loadouts with rockets can be useful in interdiction and some might convert to Yak-9T's having high maneuverability and decent bomb loads.

No, if there is going to be a shortage anywhere, it will be with the quantity of escorts for IL-2s. I want all my fighters available for escort duty.

[56ajax]

I have just noticed that the Volga and Archangel air commands are removed from the game on T7. It would appear that the attached air groups are reassigned to the closest air command in my case NW and SW air commands, or this may be hard coded.

On the map when you click on NW air command these 'ex archangel' are not listed but they do appear on the CR. I dont think they count towards command points either.

fya

[M60A3TTS]

Week 51 7 June 1942

4th Air Army of Southern Front near Stalingrad attacks 8th Panzer Division. Ground losses were only 308 men at the cost of 52 aircraft to ground fire. However subsequent ground attacks reduced 8th Panzer to 70 tanks, or just under 50% of authorized strength.

2nd Air Army of Bryansk Front attacks against 20th Panzer Division generated 183 casualties at the cost of 13 aircraft to ground fire. Subsequent ground attacks reduced 20th Panzer with a supporting StuG battalion to 114 tanks. This division started the week close to full strength of 140 tanks and 21 StuGs and is now at 79% of allocated AFVs.

It is clear that due to 23 intercepts by FW 190s from III./JG51 at Kaluga that 2nd Air Army bases of Tula and Shekino are not viable for the ground attack divisions. The divisions must be moved south so as to be closer to their targets.

In total, VVS ground attacks generate Axis losses of 3,172 men, 48 guns and 21 AFVs. 97 FFBs and 203 IL-2s were lost during this phase. An additional 242 aircraft of various types are lost during the ground phase. Despite this, we still have a healthy pool of just over 2,000 IL-2s that should be sufficient to get us through the 1942 campaign. We maintain 151 fighter regiments on the map.

9 airbases are either under construction or being expanded in various parts of the front.


On the ground, Northwest Leningrad falls to Schoener's LIX Corps. The troops left in Leningrad are encumbered by a large number of damaged ground elements that are non-repairable. This does not deter the Leningrad Air Command from applying a maximum effort in order to keep the Leningrad garrison supplied. A total of 910 tons are flown in using an assortment of TB-3G-2s, Li-2s, U-2 transports and TB-3s, with 30 of varying types being lost. There are also 38 escorts lost, although these losses are far less than we were absorbing while trying to keep Leningrad from being isolated.




Here is the air action in the Orel region.




Southwest of Stalingrad




In the far south, Axis forces featuring 16th Panzer Division with Totenkopf and Das Reich SS Divisions under Manstein continue to gnaw away at our defenses along the Terek River. 9th Mountain Division is surrounded.

[M60A3TTS]

Week 52 14 June 1942

VVS ground attacks generate Axis losses of 6,764 men, 117 guns and 2 AFVs. 70 FFBs and 108 IL-2s are lost.
4,269 fighter and 5,113 bomber sorties are launched during the air phase. There are 51 IL-2 and 3 R-Z regiments participating in ground attacks this week.






The German forces that surround Leningrad do not attack this week, and instead build up for the final assaults. Leningrad Air Command flies in 725 tons of supplies into the beleaguered city. Only 12 transport aircraft and 44 escorts are lost.

Around Orel a few battles initiated by both sides.




Several Soviet spoiling attacks take place in the Donets region where Axis allies are operating.




West of Stalingrad, the German forces drive towards the Don in the direction of Kletskaya.




In the far south, the Terek River defense line is gone. Rifle divisions from the 9th Reserve, 47th and 57th Armies fall back into the foothills and mountains of the Central Caucasus. The 148th Rifle Division of 47th Army is holding Grozny for the moment. General Novikov commanding 47th Army is ordered personally by Stalin to assist engineers in the immediate evacuation of all remaining engineering and drilling equipment in the oil fields. Engineers are to wreck the oil wells by all means necessary without further delay in order to deny their use to the advancing German forces.

[56ajax]

Can you define the difference between Trained and Untrained pilots?

My reading of the manual is that trained pilots have an experience equal to the Air National Morale (currently 50) and untrained pilots half that (25) but when i click on Get Trained Pilot Crews I might get a pilot with experience = 44.

So untrained is up to 25 experience and trained is over 25?

And the Free Pool, is there anyway of knowing what type eg FB, TAC etc are in this pool? At the moment it seems to be suck it and see.

Thx

[tyronec]

Week 52 14 June 1942

VVS ground attacks generate Axis losses of 6,764 men, 117 guns and 2 AFVs. 70 FFBs and 108 IL-2s are lost.
4,269 fighter and 5,113 bomber sorties are launched during the air phase. There are 51 IL-2 and 3 R-Z participating in ground attacks this week.

Am interested in your thoughts on this.
You have been inflicting 2k or so manpower losses during the air phase a few times. I don't think Axis can survive these kind of damage. It has the effect of draining their manpower pool but probably of more significant short term impact is that their lead units are going to need to REFIT to build up to strength. If they do that near to the main offensive it will use up rail capacity, also puts the unit out of action for a couple of turns. And Axis supply for an attack on Stalingrad (and the Caucasus) is already going to be in shortage.

[M60A3TTS]

Can you define the difference between Trained and Untrained pilots?

My reading of the manual is that trained pilots have an experience equal to the Air National Morale (currently 50) and untrained pilots half that (25) but when i click on Get Trained Pilot Crews I might get a pilot with experience = 44.

So untrained is up to 25 experience and trained is over 25?

And the Free Pool, is there anyway of knowing what type eg FB, TAC etc are in this pool? At the moment it seems to be suck it and see.

Thx

The part of the manual that covers what we are talking about are sections 16.7.1 and 16.7.2. To make this easier to understand I'll quote some of what are in these two sections.

16.7.1
When pilots are initially assigned to an air group unit, they are either trained pilots with experience equal to current air national morale or new pilots with experience equal to only half the current air national morale (12.1 and 38.2).

Well, that's not entirely accurate, because something got left out. You note yourself that a trained pilot coming in with NM=50 may have a value of 44. If the manual is correct, then why isn't it always 50?

In the section below, 16.7.2, there is something mentioned about two calculation formulas. Here is the entire section verbatim.

The experience of a trained pilot brought into a freshly raised unit is equal to: (National Morale x 3/4) + (Average Experience of Group Being Joined x 1/4) + rnd(20) - rnd(20)

The experience of an untrained pilot is equal to: (National Morale x 3/4 x 1/2) + (Average Experience of Group Being Joined x 1/4) + rnd(20) - rnd(20).

Never mind the freshly raised bit, this applies to everyone. So there are basically three parts of the calculation formula as it relates to first, National Morale and second, average experience of the group being joined. I want to focus on the last part, the + rnd(20) - rnd(20). This is set of two variables, where there are two values to be generated on a 20-sided die. The first value is added, and the second subtracted. So if we just ignore the first two part of the formula for sake of discussion, if we have NM = 50, and then supposing the two rnd(20's) generated are 20 and 0, the experience of a trained pilot will be 70 (50+20-0). If the two generated values are 0 and 20, that trained pilot will have a value of 30 (50+0-20). This accounts for what can be a wide swing in pilot experience as a group of new pilots enter the same unit.

Now, there is something not entirely clear from the manual, and that is there is always a baseline experience level of 25 for a pilot. You will never get anyone below 25, regardless of the formula calculation. So to your original question, what's the difference between a trained and untrained pilot? Well from a practical standpoint the first two parts of the formula should outline that easily enough, but with an additional RNG that can swing 20 points in either direction, every time you hit the get trained pilots button, you are playing the lottery. You might get a 70 and you win, or you may get a 30 and you lose. And a 30 trained pilot historically speaking was not a rarity in 1941-1942. The flight schools in the USSR had a mission to turn out pilots in quantity. That meant the school graduate could get the plane in the air, and land it safely most times if the weather was good. They got very limited training in actual air-to-air combat and fired very few rounds against towed targets. Everything else they were expected to learn once they got to the unit, which accounts for that part of the formula about the experience of the group being joined.

To your last question, there is no way to know how many pilots are in the free pool with each type. Clicking on get individual pilots for an air unit will either subtract from the free pool or trained pilot counter. Once you see the free pool number not dropping, and the trained pool does, then you know free pool is at zero. Even if you could see how many pilots were in each pool, you can't see the individual experience level for the pilots. While I like the changes that were made in the latest patch, it still doesn't help with something like this. So what I do is try and make sure that the fighter free pool is empty, disband one of my 67-pilot on map units and then drop the 60+ experience pilots in the best units, drop the 50's experience pilots in the same level of unit and the dregs go in the worst units. That way a lot of regiments can keep up their experience levels to some degree. Better that than just allow too many of these 30's and 40's trained pilots to end up in quality units.

[56ajax]

Thanks very much. I read 16.7.1 but not 16.7.2

Having to check the Free pilot count after adding a trained pilot is a pain in the posterior.

[M60A3TTS]

Week 52 14 June 1942

VVS ground attacks generate Axis losses of 6,764 men, 117 guns and 2 AFVs. 70 FFBs and 108 IL-2s are lost.
4,269 fighter and 5,113 bomber sorties are launched during the air phase. There are 51 IL-2 and 3 R-Z participating in ground attacks this week.

Am interested in your thoughts on this.
You have been inflicting 2k or so manpower losses during the air phase a few times. I don't think Axis can survive these kind of damage. It has the effect of draining their manpower pool but probably of more significant short term impact is that their lead units are going to need to REFIT to build up to strength. If they do that near to the main offensive it will use up rail capacity, also puts the unit out of action for a couple of turns. And Axis supply for an attack on Stalingrad (and the Caucasus) is already going to be in shortage.

Since jubjub is on the receiving end, he would be far better suited to answer the question without giving away too many state secrets.

I suspect since over a 52-week calendar year the weather will only be favorable for air missions in half of them, the loss numbers would not put his ability to survive into question. It may create adverse conditions for him in some parts of the front, but I can only do real damage when the fighter opposition isn't too great, the defending units aren't too dug in, have sufficient airbases in close proximity to the target hex, and my ability to resupply in between missions exists to some degree. Having all these conditions in my favor is a rarity at the moment, so I take what I can get. As long as my air losses don't get out of hand, a sustained air campaign is a fundamental part of my game here.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

This has been in game since WITE1. If playing with open TBs the Germans can almost cover everywhere with fighters. BUT if playing closed TBs,... we'll good luck for Germany.

[RKhan]

This has been in game since WITE1. If playing with open TBs the Germans can almost cover everywhere with fighters. BUT if playing closed TBs,... we'll good luck for Germany.

Which reflects the situation the Axis actually faced.

Open TBs are alluring for the control they give, but not realistic in the sense of what theater commanders have always had to deal with in a real war: events and decisions outside their span of control.

Still, I look forward to trying open TBs one day.

The Soviet air war being conducted in this game is brilliant. But I note that the Axis are still doing well on the ground.

[Shupov]

+1