tyronec (Axis) vs Quantas (Soviet).

[tyronec]

There is a glut of aircraft.

T186b.jpg (73.59 KiB) Viewed 988 times

T186c.jpg (75.83 KiB) Viewed 988 times

T186d.jpg (90.72 KiB) Viewed 988 times

[tyronec]

T184.
North. Soviets are through to the last line of forts on part of the line. We move some of our better units to the front there and stuff them with SUs, but am not expecting much of them.
Center. Have had to disband a lot of part built forts because I didn’t get them started early enough. Trying to hold the line where we have some woods and pulling back elsewhere. As in the North am having to abandon some fortified hexes. Did I really leave one of my best HQs in the open, am not sure...
South. Fairly quiet as we are running fast enough. One division getting stuck in the mountains will likely get pocketed. Think I got VPs for capturing Belgrade !
The air war is swinging against the Luftwaffe, the weather keeping the losses down as not so many planes flying GS in the winter.

T184a.jpg (284.47 KiB) Viewed 911 times

T184b.jpg (310.67 KiB) Viewed 911 times

T184c.jpg (156.37 KiB) Viewed 911 times

T184d.jpg (46.58 KiB) Viewed 911 times

[M60A3TTS]

At the end maybe you can post the VP graph again. He was around 640 last time you posted the info.

[tyronec]

T185.
North. The fort line is down to one deep in some sections of the line and the Soviets have a made a small hole at one point with follow up attacks. Time to start running.
Center. Soviets ignored my strong defences in the woods and have pushed through further north, thus outflanking any viable defensive line. We do a few costly counter attacks to push back the lead units but they will be free to advance into the hole.
South. The division in the mountains escaped. The Soviets managed to outflank my line on the Yugoslav border and get through to some hexes that I had thought would have flipped last turn. Fortunately we have enough panzers in the area to rout them away.

T185a.jpg (285.72 KiB) Viewed 827 times

T185b.jpg (282.66 KiB) Viewed 827 times

T185c.jpg (149.09 KiB) Viewed 827 times

T185d.jpg (25.7 KiB) Viewed 827 times

[tyronec]

As expected the game terminated at the end of December.
First of all thanks to Quantas for a great game, he has been an honorable opponent and we have completed the whole campaign in 10 months.
That is the longest game by far that I have ever played. It has been a lot of fun though two years of defending was becoming a bit demoralising, so can't say I am not sorry that we didn't go another 4 months !

A glorious victory for the Axis, we have only lost Finland, Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Yugoslavia and a fair chunk of Hungary and Germany.

I think probably the game was unwinnable for the Soviets by '44, there was ground for Axis to be able to retreat into and not enough time for the Soviets to force their way to Berlin. So they would have needed to make more progress in '43 but with the balance of the armies and lack of a manpower reserve that would have been difficult.

German manpower is holding up, there is 100k in the pool. Aircraft are in surplus. Panzers however are running out as is Hungarian equipment. CVs are going steadily down while I expect the Soviets are just improving.
There are still 30 hexes to Berlin, if the game went on until April I would probably be retreating 3 hexes a turn for most of the time and then trying to make a stand in the woods East of Berlin. I think you also need to hold Prague to stop the whole army from being isolated and that would be difficult. So the result not at all certain.

T186.jpg (78.36 KiB) Viewed 825 times

[tyronec]

Some stats.

T185e.jpg (216.58 KiB) Viewed 823 times

T185f.jpg (37.76 KiB) Viewed 823 times

T185g.jpg (96.87 KiB) Viewed 823 times

T185h.jpg (98.65 KiB) Viewed 823 times

[tyronec]

T185i.jpg (113.11 KiB) Viewed 821 times

T185j.jpg (133.22 KiB) Viewed 821 times

T185k.jpg (77.19 KiB) Viewed 820 times

[Nikel]

Impressive

Thanks to you and Quantas for continue playing until the end!

[TallBlondJohn]

Congratulations on your win, it has been a pleasure to follow this all the way. Thanks for sharing it with us and the work required.

[M60A3TTS]

Much appreciated that both of you stuck it out. Soviets were likely done by Summer of 1942 so especially happy to see this one lasted. At an Axis High Water Mark of about 843, you likely could have won with even 100 less. He only got to the point at the end where you had reached in November 1941.




Looking at what remained in front of Quantas taken from a generic map, to the left of the line, he likely needed Budapest and Warsaw to remain in the game at even 743 VPs.



All in all he wasn't terribly far from historical lines, but then your retreat allowed for some of that, and we saw an ending that wasn't terribly close. If the Soviet player allows the Axis HWM to reach 750 that normally at certain points in 1942 would force an end in the standard scenario, it makes for a protracted battle that they are very unlikely to win before time runs out at the end of 1944. The Western Allies aren't coming to save them.

I still found it odd Quantas had so few guards corps, not that it mattered in the end. Clearly he had the brigades to make some, but chose not to. Maybe there's something he's not telling.

[tyronec]

All in all he wasn't terribly far from historical lines, but then your retreat allowed for some of that, and we saw an ending that wasn't terribly close. If the Soviet player allows the Axis HWM to reach 750 that normally at certain points in 1942 would force an end in the standard scenario, it makes for a protracted battle that they are very unlikely to win before time runs out at the end of 1944. The Western Allies aren't coming to save them.

Am not sure how much manpower plays a part. If Axis take more ground in '41 and '42 then that is depriving the Soviets of men and then even if they grow their army to 7M+ as they did in this game they are less able to afford so many attritional attacks mid war and later into the game.

What I think is positive is that the recent mods allow for a game that can be competative right through to the end; whereas in earlier versions it was more a case of Axis had to win in '41 or '42 while if the Soviets survived in reasonable shape that far then the game was all in their favor.

[Wiedrock]

Not sure if I am missing any major captured city by you lowering his production numbers drastically.
Looking at losses and stuff inside end OOB (last stuff you've posted), Soviets must have ended the game with about ~60k AFVs in the Pool (out of ~120k total produced/available until Dec 1944) and ~70k planes in the Pool (of all types - amongst them about ~32k IL-2-types and ~20k Fighters in Pools).
So I don't think manpower was a concern.

[tyronec]

Not sure if I am missing any major captured city by you lowering his production numbers drastically.

There was nothing major and I don't know how much all of the various population centers adds up to over the course of the game.

[Shupov]

An excellent, hard-fought campaign and AAR! Thank you!! It was not too much different than my current game that is now at turn 110.

So now come the inevitable questions...

As this game matched two advanced players resulting in a decisive Axis victory, what is your sense of the overall game balance?

If unbalanced, what initial settings would you use to create a more balanced scenario?

Both players please reply!

[RKhan]

Great game, thank you for going to all the trouble to post it!

[tyronec]

As this game matched two advanced players resulting in a decisive Axis victory, what is your sense of the overall game balance?

It is too early to say from one game using the mods as to if it is balanced, would want to play a few games from both sides.

[quantas]

An excellent, hard-fought campaign and AAR! Thank you!! It was not too much different than my current game that is now at turn 110.

So now come the inevitable questions...

As this game matched two advanced players resulting in a decisive Axis victory, what is your sense of the overall game balance?

If unbalanced, what initial settings would you use to create a more balanced scenario?

Both players please reply!

As tyronec correctly noted, it is too early to make such a valid statement. We used a morale boost of +5 on each side. In my opinion, this strengthens the Soviet side in particular in the critical period up to the summer of 1942, as morale does not fall below 50 then. This would lead to significantly worse combat results with significantly more casualties.

On the other hand, higher morale means that events in North Africa, Italy and Western Europe are more likely to go in favor of the Axis. The invasion of Normandy, for example, only took place in August.

tyronec played very well and didn't make any major mistakes. In my opinion, the side that makes fewer mistakes wins and that was definitely tyronec.

[quantas]

Can we get an OOB please?

I don't quite understand why Quantas carries so many guards rifle brigades. It looks like he could have converted them into another dozen + guards rifle corps. The Naval Infantry Brigades as alternate support units are not a bad substitute due to their larger size. Mix in assault engineers and that is a respectable group for taking down these forts.

I think the ability to generate rifle corps from rifle brigades has been removed for a few patch versions and no longer exists. As far as I know, Riflecorps can be generated by generating Guards Divisions from Airborne Brigades. However, this costs significant AP.

[quantas]

Not sure if I am missing any major captured city by you lowering his production numbers drastically.
Looking at losses and stuff inside end OOB (last stuff you've posted), Soviets must have ended the game with about ~60k AFVs in the Pool (out of ~120k total produced/available until Dec 1944) and ~70k planes in the Pool (of all types - amongst them about ~32k IL-2-types and ~20k Fighters in Pools).
So I don't think manpower was a concern.

You are right, manpower was not the decisive point. More would be better, but the quantity was ok. Your vehicle-estimate was good. The deficit in the units was -50k. 16k were in the pool and 66k in repair.

[Wiedrock]

Not sure if I am missing any major captured city by you lowering his production numbers drastically.
Looking at losses and stuff inside end OOB (last stuff you've posted), Soviets must have ended the game with about ~60k AFVs in the Pool (out of ~120k total produced/available until Dec 1944) and ~70k planes in the Pool (of all types - amongst them about ~32k IL-2-types and ~20k Fighters in Pools).
So I don't think manpower was a concern.

You are right, manpower was not the decisive point. More would be better, but the quantity was ok. Your vehicle-estimate was good. The deficit in the units was -50k. 16k were in the pool and 66k in repair.

I was referring to AFVs (Tanks, SPGs).

On the other hand, higher morale means that events in North Africa, Italy and Western Europe are more likely to go in favor of the Axis. The invasion of Normandy, for example, only took place in August.

I have created this Mod exactly because of this. The Axis TBs, especially WEST are ridiculously high in percentages. While Soviets are all at 80% or so. No idea what that is supposed to lead to when playing with closed TBs.
I have run this Mod only in Ai vs Ai until T16. Would be good to run it till 1945 to make sure I did not mess something up before you decide to use it for a closed TB match.

You could actually post the Victory Points screen and show the Devs the Screens from 1 turn before Initiative switch/when Axis HWM was set and end of the game.