AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not?

[Sardaukar]

Thanks a lot! [8D]

[vrnichol]

Gotta love it

[renders]

HUGE description. Very nice work.

[JRyan]

This was one of the best ideas and implementations and AAR's I have read. Fascinating. Can you imagine if the IJN were to sink the Nimitz? Wow.

One thing to add in the scenario is the 4 american carriers. They were not in range to participate but what if?

I will be watching this thread for sure. Command makes it possible.[&o]

[acbennett3]

Thanks for the good words. Real life has recently intruded but I hope to finish the story of the Nimitz vs the IJN Waves soon. Also plan on working on the scenario in the following areas:

1. Make Pearl more complete realistic to support a better recreation of the IJN attacks.
2. Explore what-ifs w/the US 1941 CV's - both in Pearl and at sea able to strike back.
3. Better US Intel warning and using the PBY's/fleet sortie to detect and take on the IJN First Air Fleet.

Probably pushing the envelope on Command's ability to recreate early WW2 carrier battles - but the tools are there so let's see...

What has surprised me the most about Command is its ability to create, simulate, and explore historical/what-if situations. For me this is the big draw, although the game aspect w/pre-packaged scenarios is great also.

[acbennett3]

Just played thru another "more realistic" alternate history for Dec 7th:
The US gets Intel of the IJN attack and Pearl takes it seriously.
First thing on the morning of Dec 7th a number of PBYs are launched to recon to the north of Pearl to see if there is anything to the intel.

Also the Enterprise, Hornet, and Yorktown (Sara was not in the CWDB) are conveniently steaming to the northwest of Pearl on a combined exercise.
Each has a standard air group of:
X18 F4F Wildcats
X36 SBD-5 Dauntless
X18 TBD-1 Devastator

The PBY's on their way north actually pass by/detect the IJN first wave on the way to attack Pearl. They notify Pearl but they are still thinking it's an inbound flight of B-17's and don't take it seriously. Eventually they spot the IJN First Air Fleet and radio it in - but too late for Pearl. The IJN attack achieves complete surprise (basically because there are no P-36s/P-40s in the CWDB (yet?) so I can't recreate an opposed attack yet).

But here is the counter factual point of departure - the US CV Group also gets word of the attack as well as the location of the IJN Fleet and is able to quickly launch a full complement strike against it. Highly unlikely in real life - pre-war USN CV group needs to arm the AC and then launch a 3 carrier coordinated air strike. Later in the war the USN would have the skillset for this - but for this test run I wanted to see how a full strike would play out.

After creating 2 strike missions the new AC planner did a good job of launching and forming up the AC before they proceeded to head towards the IJN Fleet - except the TBD-1's refused to launch and I had to do them manually. This introduced the dreaded staggered attack between the SBDs and TBDs which occurred a number of times in the early part of the Pacific war.

Below is an image of the multiple strikes inbound.
VF = F4F's
VB = SBD Dauntless
VT = TBD Devastator

Key things to note:
1. Speed differential between the SBDs/TBDs makes it very hard to sync an attack (220kts vs 128kts)
2. SBDs start their attack from high altitude while the TBDs need to be below 1000ft - I took them down to 150ft.

[acbennett3]

Below is an image of the first wave of approx 72 SBDs attacking the IJN fleet. The IJN CAP/Zeroes took out a few SBDs on the way in. Whole lot of bombs dropping (red streaks and blue/white explosions) but not too many hits. No Walleyes this time.

[acbennett3]

On the way out the Zeroes aggressively followed and took out numerous SBDs.

[acbennett3]

But this pulled the Zeroes away from the IJN Fleet which allowed the smaller second group of SBDs an easier time while attacking. Numerous IJN ships are showing damage and the IJN Chikuma (Tone Class CA) has been sunk.

[acbennett3]

Below the slower moving TBDs begin their descent and attack run.
But at 128kts they are easy meat for the Zeroes.
The first group of 18 are all shot down before getting in range of the IJN Fleet (shades of Midway).

[acbennett3]

But most of the remaining TBDs are able to close the IJN Fleet and launch their torpedoes - in the face of lots of AAA.

[acbennett3]

Some of the Torpedoes hit and numerous IJN ships are showing fire/flooding, while another group of TBDs have just dropped their torpedoes from the northwest.

[acbennett3]

In the end the USN strike was able sink 6 ships (including 1 CV, 1 CA and a number of DDs/CLs) and a number of other ships were damaged. Not a killer strike but enough to hurt.

IJN LOSSES:
-------------------------------
29x Aichi D3A2 Val
1x IJN Asashio
2x IJN Kagerō
1x IJN Nagara
1x IJN Sōryū
1x IJN Tone
60x Mitsubishi A6M2 Type 0 Zero
32x Nakajima B5N2 Kate

But the USN strike AC losses were substantial - no follow-on strike would be coming soon.

USN LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x F4F-4 Wildcat
73x SBD-5 Dauntless - out of 108 total
52x TBD-1 Devastator - out of 54 total!

The Zeroes were devastating (pun intended) against the slow moving TBDs - especially since the F4F Escort/CAP never got its act together taking on the Zeroes/protecting the strike for some reason.

Can Command simulate WW2 Pacific Operations? Its pushing the envelope but I believe it can - starting with carrier duels (Coral Sea, Midway, etc.). I would especially love to setup the USN Jeep Carriers holding off the IJN Surface Fleet from the Leyte Invasion Fleet. Also air and surface strikes against land targets (invasions, ports, airfields) could be simulated. Finally you could also probably simulate the Strategic bombing campaign against the Japanese homeland if the correct AC are added to the CWDB in the future.

[sandy61]

I just found this scenario linked to from another forum. Sweet...I always wondered what the end of The Final Countdown would have been like if the strike was not called off. Thanks for all your hard work....and you even left in the nukes.[:D]

[sandy61]

OK, I played this a couple of times the past day. The first time, I managed to lose 7 of the A-6E's but totally crushed the IJN. The second time, 0 losses for me. I found that using the Sparrow AAM's instead of the Phoenix helped me get a better kill rate. I also used the A-7's in a A2A mode and they were pretty good at killing the Zero's. It was a pretty entertaining game and would be a good start for anyone new to C:MANO. I was going to try using some SHRIKES on their radars but the IJN doesn't keep the radars turned on long enough for the ARM's to get a good lock. It was also interesting how much damage the BB's were able to adsorb before slipping beneath the waves.

[Lawdog1700]

Is the scenario still available for download?

[magi]

this was a lot of fun to read... thanks....

[Lawdog1700]

I found the link to the scenario on the last page (duh, sorry about that). But it appears that the scenario no longer works under the current build. Oh well, I was REALLY looking forward to playing this one.

I cannot load the A-7s or the F-14s. I can load the A-6s but by the time they are loaded (6 hours) the Pearl Harbor strike is already well underway. Darn, I wish I had started downloading scenarios a few months ago.

[Bulbous]

ORIGINAL: Lawdog1700

I found the link to the scenario on the last page (duh, sorry about that). But it appears that the scenario no longer works under the current build. Oh well, I was REALLY looking forward to playing this one.

I cannot load the A-7s or the F-14s. I can load the A-6s but by the time they are loaded (6 hours) the Pearl Harbor strike is already well underway. Darn, I wish I had started downloading scenarios a few months ago.

I noticed this on Build 568, then second time I just set the option for unlimited armaments at start up to be able to load up the Tomcats and Corsairs. Try that

[Major SNAFU_M]

Great read. Love the idea.

One thought for future revisions. There were IJN subs operating around pearl at this time. I would consider the following:

Initiate immediate zig-zag alternating between full and flank every 25 minutes with ranndom deviations up to 60 degrees of bass course every half-hour. SH-3's should be sanitizing the main line of advance. Remember that subs run shallow in this time period. During contact prosecution, use active sonobuoys.

I think that option 2 would have been the only real choice. You have to let the first wave do its damage in PH because without that, there is the possibility that the Nimitz would never have been built (Timey-Wimey, wibbly-wobbly paradoxically thing...)

I think the prowlers might have had a use in making any radio communication for the IJN virtually impossible?


The only thing that I could envision would be the CAG making the following address to the pilots:

CAG: "Okay, I just have a few points that I want to make certain that you all hear and understand. There will be special ROE for this flight and I'll have the wings of anyone who doesn't follow them to the letter - no discussions, no excuses."

1- While the enemy may be flying what you would consider an antique, they have much more real combat experience that the majority of you all and no technology beats hard experience. They will know themselves, their aircraft and how they react when someone is shooting at them better than you will.

2- Under no circumstances is anyone to engage in any type of turning fight with any Japanese aircraft. The one absolute advantage that you have is power. You are faster and you can regain energy faster than they can. You will consider your maneuvers only as superior energy fighters. They can turn inside of your turning circle and will nail you if you get into a turning fight. They will also be able to make you overshoot and will nail you as you try to recover. A priest of my acquiatance who was a RCAF Spitfire pilot once told me a story where he and his wing man came upon a Storch one day. They made 5 passes at him, going as slow as they dared while maintaining flight speed vs/recoil and he evaded them every time. They finally let him go. The IJN pilots will be able to do this to you in spades.

3- If you are within 4 NM of the INJ fleet you will be at full Mil power at all times. Remember that they are much better at deflection shooting that you are, but they have trained their reflexes for aircraft within a certain speed envelope. Most of the time they will not lead you effectively if you are moving at Mill power.

4- Go vertical. It is the one direction that you will absolutely out maneuver any IJN opponent. They can out turn you, but they cannot out climb you. Each pass should be from above, take your shot, if you miss immediately go vertical. Also remember that you can, should and will bring them to the top of their operational ceiling (XO give out the figures) and still be above them. Bring them up to you, where their performance will be seriously degraded. Only move into their performance envelope for moments at a time.

5- Use your speed and jet wash as offensive weapons.

I think that covers it. Follow those ROEs to the letter and I predict very few USN losses. [:D]