The Big One: Northern Fury #34 - The Longest Battle

[Stanley_The_Rolmate]

The Soviets did have a naval base and military presence in Angola, so maybe that could make the South Atlantic a bit more interesting. But I don't think the South African government would approve of bombing Angola, and probably wouldn't allow South African forces to be used.

https://www.veteranangola.ru/main/knigi/flot_booklet
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CI ... 0001-8.pdf

[tylerblakebrandon]

Those are fair points and some of them are very deliberate. On your last point, I agree that the whole scenario could do without anything - probably below the equator. A couple reasons I included it (which doesn't mean I won't consider your suggestion):
1) D had asked for scenarios to test the game to its max, no-one was sure what that was at the time and I think the added hemisphere helped to do that.
2) I was wondering how to include the South Atlantic into my WW3 creation, without having another war down there but to complete the story.
3) there were a couple very eager South Africans on the forum back then who wanted see their country and some of their kit involved

I can achieve the second two with a quick mod to Mozambique Madness and I think the first point is well past being useful. So this suggestion is valid and I will consider it closely. Although I do like the idea of snookering the odd Brit

Thanks again, I know that this scenario is quite an effort to run and I appreciate your effort.

B

Just my $0.02 but I enjoyed the inclusion of the Argentine distraction as I felt it was realistic for the scenario purpose and as you stated brought the South Atlantic in w/o an entirely new campaign.

Although if the Argentine ambassador was to make some visits around D.C. and disavow any part in the Soviet war the player might be willing to shuffle some less capable units, like the Ecuadorians, south to keep an eye out while moving others into play up north.

[FrangibleCover]

The Soviets did have a naval base and military presence in Angola, so maybe that could make the South Atlantic a bit more interesting. But I don't think the South African government would approve of bombing Angola, and probably wouldn't allow South African forces to be used.

Honestly, I think it's unlikely that the post-Apartheid South African government would join in against the Soviets who fought for their freedom alongside the Westerners who tacitly supported their oppression. Not by enough of a margin to make them come in on the other side, but probably by enough of a margin that they would refuse to participate. That's why I made the comment about the Soviets killing Olympians - They'd have to do something directly against South Africa to drag them in. Lillehammer 1994 is the first Olympics that South Africa has sent athletes to since 1960 (even if they are both white, it's still 1994 and it's still the Winter Olympics), and as the Spetsnaz leave the Olympic Village surely somebody would spot them and have to be silenced? Maybe the NF3 terror attacks could affect South Africans too, a schoolbus full of nuns on one of the bridges?

Once that seal is broken it's a lot more likely that South African forces would be committed against Mozambique, Madagascar and Angola.

Just my $0.02 but I enjoyed the inclusion of the Argentine distraction as I felt it was realistic for the scenario purpose and as you stated brought the South Atlantic in w/o an entirely new campaign.

Although if the Argentine ambassador was to make some visits around D.C. and disavow any part in the Soviet war the player might be willing to shuffle some less capable units, like the Ecuadorians, south to keep an eye out while moving others into play up north.

If it was obvious that the situation with Argentina was an economy of force operation and the player was forced to keep xyz units/unit types in the area and remain at readiness rather than 'expect an attack any second', that would be a lot less stressful. Rereading the briefing you really aren't given a lot to go on about the situation with Argentina and your intended posture towards them, you're just given way more assets than you need. I knotted myself into paranoia over this, although other players might not.

If I could have covered them off with the Ecuadoreans and the Chileans I absolutely would, but they turn up off Panama and by the time you got them down there and got the good warships that are down there up to the convoy areas, the scenario would be basically over (I say, knowing full well that the run time left in the scenario would still be in the top ten longest in the CSP). Not to mention that if the Argentinians actually did start something the other South Americans would get flattened in very short order. If Argentina is to be retained it might be interesting to have the Chileans offer to send their Leander north or south, to spawn either off Panama or off Tierra del Fuego.

Having now had a look at the positions in my final save, I'm not sure I should have stopped. There were still a lot of Soviet submarines in areas that could have come after me, although my single transatlantic convoy route only brushes the southern edge of the range of the majority of the Soviet subs. Honestly, I think what the Soviets probably need is better ISR so that they can find my ships, as well as having a reinforcement mechanic to refill areas that the player has cleared, either from other areas or from fresh subs coming out from the Soviet Union and the hidden bases. Possibly RORSATs would help, certainly for the SSGNs if nothing else. There's also only a single Alfa in the scenario, I wonder if having a number of them set up with a very wide area patrol and a max speed, max depth attack profile would be helpful in gap-filling. Every time a NATO ship is spotted they sprint towards it at forty knots and every time the spot is lost they go back to random movement at five knots, so over time they attract towards the areas that contain NATO ships. Any sub could do this, but doing it with an Alfa also means that they'll make effective - or at least scary - attacks when they do arrive. They're basically only vulnerable to Stingrays and submarines, and they're going so fast that you can't position a submarine in time and your Stingray only gets one shot.

[tylerblakebrandon]

Also wondering if the scenario might benefit from some adjustments to the OOB given that some newer units and even countries are available now that weren't when the scenario was created, thinking about some of the Caribbean patrols craft and the Mexican FRAM Cans.

[Gunner98]

Makes sense

[FrangibleCover]

I actually had a bit of a look at Argentinian politics around 1994 and I think to have them be a reasonable threat even to the most paranoid Tory you're going to have to make big political changes. Carlos Menem is extremely popular (he's due to win the 1995 election by over twenty percentage points) and extremely pro-West/NATO/Anglosphere. He's keen on the US, anticommunist, he took Argentina out of the NAM, he re-established diplomatic relations with the UK in 1990 after they had been broken off in 1982, he settled almost all of the territorial issues with Chile, which Argentina regarded as nearly as important as the Falklands... I joked while writing the AAR about getting some of the MEKOs, I think Menem might give me some. Argentinian ships went to the Gulf and they contributed to UNPROFOR in Bosnia.

I suppose the good news here is that while Jeanne de Arc is going to be banished to the Indian Ocean, you have the opportunity to bring in Minas Gerais and Argentinian naval aviators to replace her. Possibly moving the Asturias group up to Biscay and adding the Minas Gerais off Brazil, if that doesn't screw up any plot stuff?

Also wondering if the scenario might benefit from some adjustments to the OOB given that some newer units and even countries are available now that weren't when the scenario was created, thinking about some of the Caribbean patrols craft and the Mexican FRAM Cans.

Heartily agreed on the Mexican FRAMs, the more nations the better! I think the scenario already has naval contributions from all NATO members except Luxembourg, Greece and Turkey, all of whom have valid excuses. However, I'll take Columbian Padillas too. Really, anything with a decent sonar or a decent helicopter could be useful.

I'm less sure about the assorted patrol craft, I found the USCG to be worse than useless in this scenario and I think the PCs would spend most of their time acting as torpedo decoys. Leave them to the Caribbean Fury scenarios, I think, and give the poor Coasties their 1988 FRAM Hamilton-class instead of the castrated 1992 ones.