Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[Tookatee]

The ranges and speeds of both the #1754 Super R.530F and #1750 Super R.530D are incorrect. The #1754 Super 530F should have a maximum range of only 16 nautical miles, while the #1750 Super R.530D should have a maximum range of 22 nautical miles. In addition, the minimum launch range should be only half a nautical mile and not two for the #1750 Super R.530D (as the stated minimum safe launching distance for the missile is 1 km.) Finally, the speed of the #1754 Super 530F should be 3067 knots and the speed of the #1750 Super R.530D should be 3334 knots (both missiles are currently set to 2075 knots.)


Sources: https://www.forecastinternational.com/a ... _RECNO=593 , https://www.avionslegendaires.net/dossi ... ne-portee/ , https://www.aereimilitari.org/Armamenti ... r-R530.htm , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_530

[bostjan]

I noticed the descent rates of helicopters in general are unbeleivably high- about 100m/s.
This would be theoretically achevable if the helicopter would be flying straight down with a Vne (never exceed velocity).
I do not know what is the exact value, but less than 30 m/s descent rate seems much more realistic...


P.S.:Why does it matter? High descent rate makes helicopters much less vulnerable when flying high altitute missions and trying to evade air missiles(i.e. on surface patrols).

[Hunter98]

Thailand recently officially inducted the newly developed U-1 UAV and upgraded F-5TH Super Tigris into service with the Royal Thai Air Force. The upgraded F-5 includes EL/M-2032 Radar, Link-T datalink System, Have Quick II ECCM and can be armed with Derby, IRIS-T and Python-5 AAM and includes housing for Litening pod and Lizard PGM

[Tookatee]

The #1422, #574, #850, #1828-29, and #2043 SA-8/SA-N-4 Gecko SAM all have an incorrect top speed and target speed value. For all the missiles their top speed should be set to 999 knots (derived from the average speed of the missile of 1850 kilometers per hour [all variants retain the same dual pulse rocket motor and are not significantly heavier than each other].) I believe the error in the database may have been a confusion between the absolute top speed and the missiles actual cruising speed as all these variants of the Gecko use a dual-pulse rocket motor. This propels it at launch to a significant speed before that part of the motor stops and the slower burning section of the motor takes over and propels to missile to the target.

As for the target speed values: the #1829 and #850 Geckos should be set at 816 knots, the #1828, #2043, #574, and #1422 Geckos should be set at 972 knots.

Sources: http://www.deagel.com/Defensive-Weapons ... 30001.aspx , https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/d ... rmor_id=60 , https://weaponsystems.net/weaponsystem/ ... Gecko.html , http://www.tetraedr.com/mupload/iblock/ ... fc0a2b.pdf , and https://www.armyrecognition.com/russia_ ... on_uk.html

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: bostjan
I noticed the descent rates of helicopters in general are unbeleivably high- about 100m/s.
This would be theoretically achevable if the helicopter would be flying straight down with a Vne (never exceed velocity).
I do not know what is the exact value, but less than 30 m/s descent rate seems much more realistic...


P.S.:Why does it matter? High descent rate makes helicopters much less vulnerable when flying high altitute missions and trying to evade air missiles(i.e. on surface patrols).

Thanks! I am pretty certain we tweaked this recently for CMO but I cannot recall if this has also been applied to CMANO, we'll need to check.

[Dimitris]

ORIGINAL: stilesw

Got a database correction here for ya.

Ryan,

References?

-WS

I can help on that one: http://www.hisutton.com/SSN-23.html

[orca]

Thanks so much for the new database additions including the FFGX!

There are several issues with this that I think should be corrected. I'm sure things will change as more info becomes available but this would make it more similar to the RFP

-add Prarie Masker with resulting decreased sonar signature

-reduce radar signature to make is similar to other modern frigates optimized for steath

-Sensors:
remove AN/SPS-46
remove AN/SPS-55
remove AN/SPY-3
EASR is more accurately called AN/SPY-6(V)3
remove furuno
add AN/SPS-73
not sure what EOMS is...
remove EA-2118/AB
add ELINT (unknown type but without more info could add same as on LCS)
remove AN/SQS-53
remove SQS-56
remove kingfisher
remove 2 redundant older versions of TACTAS
remove SURTASS
remove MAD
replace AN/SLQ-32(V)5 with (V)6

-weapons/mounts:
weapons in Mk41 should be ESSM block 2 and SM-2 block 3 and VLASROC (no Tomahawk)
remove Phalanx
add Mk31 RAM (2015)
add Nixie
add Alamo ammo to Mk110
add Mk54 torpedo
add 8x or possibly 16x NSM

-datalink:
add Link 16
unsure what AN/SRR-1 is...





https://news.usni.org/2019/06/20/navy-i ... on-frigate

[KC45]

As Japanese CMANO community;

Re-request for Japanese F-2A/B(2018:DBID346/3378) to hypothetical weapons due to it does not existing.
Because
1st: the program for adding AAM-5 capability for F-2 did NOT started yet.
2nd: Mass production of ASM-3 is cancelled. Japan decided to develop ASM-3ER and not take ASM-3 because of the range.
3rd:F-2 can only equip 2 ASM-3 maximum; not 4.

Due to the DBv479 update, F-2B(2018:DBID3378) got ASM-3 which only for experimental unit, so this must get hypothetical tag.
No references because those changes didn't happen.

[LORDPrometheus]

Select warships in the US 7th fleet have begun to operate the new AN/SLQ-59 ECM system. Based on the available info it is meant to be a plug and play insulation able to be put on any US ship. It is meant to supplement the AN/SLQ-32(v)6 and is suspected to be oriented towards newer threats such as ASBMs and hypersonic cruise missiles. It should be added as a sensor first of all and to some of the Ticonderoga and arleigh Burke class ships.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 3835761952

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... leet-ships

https://www.tealgroup.com/index.php/tea ... e-programs

[TwarVG]

I've got a list of suggested changes, mostly for UK platforms, some of which I've suggested before but formatted quite poorly so I'm gonna include everything I've found so far that hasn't been changed.

Aircraft

Apache AH.Mk.1 #498 #2044
Name change both versions to Apache AH.1 - As per standard British military designations.
Apache Guardian AH.Mk.2 #4842
Name change Apache AH.2 - Standardisation again.
Remove AIM-92E Stinger #733 - Never operated by the AAC.
Remove HYDRA 70 #1929 - Never operated by the AAC.
Add CRV-7 C14 #160 - Standard issue on previous models of UK Apache and no intent to change that has been declared.
Harrier GR.3 #785 #787
Add Mk18 1000lb RET #1399 - All RAF aircraft carry 1000lb GP bombs for training, the RET version is only a swapped out tail assembly.
All UK Harrier and Sea Harrier variants
Add MkXX 540lb GPB #2253 - These scaled down versions of the 1000lb GP bomb were used on the lighter Harrier airframes. Standard issue in Afghanistan with airburst fuses.
https://www.key.aero/sites/default/file ... 137579.jpg
https://www.key.aero/sites/default/file ... 7784_0.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rqH4fUbko2U/R ... er+003.jpg
Poseidon MRA.1 #4841
Add AN/SSQ-53F DIFAR #2496
Add AN/SSQ-62E DICASS #2482
Add AN/SSQ-77B VLAD #1939
Add Mk54 LHT Mod 0 #902 - For some reason all weapons and sonobouys were removed from this platform. So far these are the weapons and consumables that have been ordered.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain ... -poseidon/
Protector MALE UCAV #4724
Name change Protector RG.1 - Standardisation.
Remove Brimstone 2 Dual mode #3589 - This isn't an actual weapon.
Remove GBU-49/B #2061 - RAF never ordered any GBU-49s. A small number of GBU-12s were ordered for the Reaper fleet, but Protector will get Paveway IV.
Add Paveway IV #519
Loadouts - 18 Brimstone 2 or 12 Brimstone 2 + 2 Paveway IV - Protector has 6 hardpoints, with each capable of taking a triplet of Brimstone 2, or the inner hardpoints, a single Paveway IV.
https://www.janes.com/article/86140/bri ... ector-rpas

Ships
D 35 Dragon Type 45 Batch 2 #1442 #2642
Remove both Batch 2 variants - There are no batch 1 or 2 ships. With the torpedo tubes correctly removed in the latest update, there's now no difference between the batch 1 and 2 entries.

Weapons
Remove Brimstone 2 dual-mode from database #3589 - As stated above, this is entirely fictional.
Add missing laser spot tracker to Brimstone dual-mode and Brimstone 2 #2251 #3035
Change SPEAR 3 speed to approx 600 knots #3530 - All sources I can find give SPEAR 3 and the MALD-J a "high subsonic speed." Both platforms have similar profiles, weights, and the exact same TJ-150 engine.
Change ADM-160C MALD-J/ADM-160B speed to 600 knots #2442 - Same as above.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... on-373453/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADM-160_M ... _ADM-160B) - Wiki gives M 0.91 as top speed.
Possible new weapon SPEAR EW on later UK Typhoons and F-35Bs - An air launched decoy based on SPEAR 3. Same stats as SPEAR 3, sensor suite of a decoy like MALD-J.
https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-releases/17630/
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ve-460827/

Give me a shout if any of these are questionable and I'll try to find more documentation, cheers!

[Joelsi]

F-22A Raptors from 2022, 2023 and 2024 have an error with their internal JATM loadouts. The missiles are lacking the (Internal) tag

[spartan21071]

With DB3000 v480
MH-53J Pave Low III-- United States (Army) needs to be changed to MH-53J Pave Low III-- United States (Air Force)

Reason: USAF is the only US service to have operated the MH-53J Pave Low III.

Thank you

[stilesw]

The RANs new Hobart-class destroyers will carry the SM-2 Block IIIB missiles.

Logged.

-WS

[Dragon029]

2 part request:

1. I noticed that the 6x internal AMRAAM loadouts for the F-35A were removed, but the F-35C still has a "2023, 6x AMRAMM" (there's a typo there as well with AMRAAM) and also features a 2025, 6x JATM loadout. Could we have those loadouts mirrored over to the F-35A? Also while the F-35B will not be getting 6x internal AMRAAMs (as noted in a previous comment in this thread), could we add a 4x JATM loadout as well? I'm not sure that the USMC will explicitly be getting JATMs in Block 4, but JATM is meant to replace the AMRAAM in the long term, so they'll have to integrate it at some point.

2. Seeing as we've got JATM, could we also get a (even if hypothetical) 12x internal Peregine and/or CUDA loadout for the F-22 and F-35A/B/C? Not sure if the B would carry 12 or 8 internally; they use a stack similar to that of SDBs, but they might need a longitudinal offset / stagger to avoid having fins overlap, which might possibly make the arrangement too long for the F-35B's truncated bays.

If we were to integrate Peregrine or CUDA, their hypothetical performance specs would be roughly:

- AIM-120C5/7 range (60nmi currently in the database)
- No warhead for the CUDA, a blast-frag warhead (perhaps AIM-9X-like) for the Peregrine.
- Home On Jam (HOJ), Anti-Air All-Aspect, Anti-Air Dogfight (High Off-Boresight), Capable vs Seaskimmer, Lock-On After Launch, CEC-Capable, Level Cruise Flight properties.
- They would be capable of engaging the same targets as AIM-120s (planes, helos, cruise missiles).
- Peregrine has a "tri-mode seeker" which presumably means AESA + IIR + HOJ, CUDA is unknown (and mock-ups of both just show a white point dome [which might be jettisoned to reveal an IIR seeker when they go Pitbull], but it'd certainly at least have an AESA seeker + HOJ.
- Peregrine is 1.8m long and 68kg, CUDA is 1.78m long presumably roughly the same weight.

Just as a reminder too; both of these weapons are concepts / proposals that technically don't have a program of record, but it's clear they're both competing for the final contract of the USAF's Small Advanced Capabilities Missile (SACM) program (which has even previously used CUDA concept art). Raytheon were awarded an initial SACM R&D contract a few years ago, but that was just to increase tech readiness levels, and it's expected that in the early 2020s we'll see either an official tender or there might just be an announcement of the winner of some previously classified or semi-hidden competition like with the AIM-260 JATM contract award to Lockheed.

Edit: While there's no exact year when we can expect SACM (Peregrine / CUDA) to enter service with the F-22 / F-35, an AFRL presentation from 2015 suggests that it'll enter service somewhere in the 2025-2028 region.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -t-460891/
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/2 ... aiting-for
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... le-382670/
https://aviationweek.com/awin/lockheed- ... e-concepts

[Tookatee]

The "Mk17 Rocket Booster" for the #396 AIM-9B and #1329 RB24 should be set to 1133.46 knots rather than 1360 knots and the #2287 AIM-9C and #742 AGM-122A Sidearm should have a top speed of 1533.5 knots. The "Mk36 Mod 9, 11 Rocket Booster" (found on the #1384 AIM-9M), the "Mk36 Mod 5 Rocket Booster" (found on the #618 AIM-9F), the "Mk36 Mod 11 Rocket Booster" (the motor on all the AIM-9X's), plus the "Mk36 Mod 7,8,10 Rocket Booster" (found on all other AIM-9s) in the database should have a top speed value of 1666.85 knots.

Sources: Friedman, Norman, "The Naval Institute Guide to World Naval Weapons Systems, 1997-1998, Annapolis, MD: Naval
Institute Press, 1997, pg. 427 ; Jane's Weapons: Air Launched 2012-2013, pg. 35, https://planesandstuff.files.wordpress. ... lejwal.pdf ; "AIM-9 Sidewinder - Military Power." Welcome to the Military Power Wiki - Military Power. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://militarypower.wikidot.com/aim-9-sidewinder ; "AIM-9 Sidewinder." Federation Of American Scientists -. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/aim-9.htm ; "AIM-9 Sidewinder." Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia. Accessed September 1, 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-9_Sidewinder ; "Raytheon AIM-9 Sidewinder." Designation-Systems.Net. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-9.html ; "The Sidewinder Story / The Evolution of the AIM-9 Missile." Air Power Australia. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Sidewinder-94.html ; "U.S. Naval Museum of Armament & Technology." U.S. Naval Museum of Armament & Technology. Accessed September 1, 2015. http://www.chinalakemuseum.org/exhibits ... nder.shtml ; "US Air-to-Air Missiles." Accessed September 2, 2015. http://www.pmulcahy.com/aams/us_aams.htm ; Flight International, 29 May 1976, pg. 1446. https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive ... 00924.html

[Sharana]

Stunner (the missile from David's Sling SAM) can't engage the missiles it was designed to intercept, because in the DB the max speed is 1950kt which is too low. Should be at least 4 600kt like Patriot/S-400 or up to 10 000kt like for their other anti-missile systems like Arrow II and III.

[M1A2G]

3 issues were found for DB3000 V480.
1、B-2A(2020)'s loadouts (B61-12 LEP GPS and B83) throw altitude are too low that can damage the plane itself.
2、DF-17 RV gets the same Performance Details with DF-17,so it's speed reduces to less than 500 knots.And RV should be a HGV(Your excel write it[:)]).If you can't give HGV model at this edition,you can set the same trajectory and similar cruise altitude just like SS-N-33 for the RV.
3、J-10C uses a PL-15 Missile Datalink instead of PL-15 Command Datalink.

[Hongjian]

Also, it appears that there is some cosmetic issue here; with wrong RCS numbers given for the J-20, J-31 in the database, despite them performing about the same as before in actual tests.

[orca]

The F-35C 2025 has JATM loadouts. But the later F-35C 2028 does not.

Can these same F-35C 2025 loadouts be added to the F-35C 2028?


Thanks

[BDukes]

Hellos

Ok slight issue with DDG Buchanan #3141 was actually last ship to have twin rail Mk.11 missile launcher. DDG 15 USS Berkeley was first Mk.13 single rails ship. So just fix name and maybe add [C.F Adams] to name so easy to filters in db viewers. No biggies!

Sources

https://www.seaforces.org/usnships/ddg/ ... -class.htm

Notice in this dated pictures. Buchanans in the late 80-90 Twin Launcher

https://www.maritimequest.com/warship_d ... page_1.htm

Bill