Khrushchev's War, Day 2 - Head 'Em off at the Sunda Strait, 1957 -- new beta for testing

[Mgellis]

Another 1957 scenario...this one involves British ships trying to intercept a Soviet convoy headed for the Sunda Strait.

As always, please let me know what you think. Events, gameplay, units selected, missions, orders, etc. Anything that needs to be fixed, changed, improved, etc.?

Note: this scenario uses v1500 of the game and the v509 database.

Thanks in advance!

Version 3 uploaded 1:50 CST Nov. 29 2024

Newcastle 1.JPG (292.71 KiB) Viewed 741 times

[HalfLifeExpert]

I'm delayed in downloading this due to the forum outage yesterday.

However, I cannot load the scenario since it seems to use the most recent DB that is bundled with the latest update (which has not been released via official channels yet). Should make note of that in the OP that it needs CWDB v509

I'll wait until the update is out on steam before trying this. Hopefully it should be any time

Alternatively, you could downgrade the scenario to DB v508, since there seems to be some issues with the most recent updates that are delaying their formal release.

[Nikel]

The database in question is included in the last beta patch.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 5#p5197175

[HalfLifeExpert]

I downloaded the patch and extracted the two new DB files into the DB folder, but it still doesn't recognize it.

UPDATE: I just decided "screw it, I always make an EXE backup" and downloaded build 1500. The scenario loads just fine now.

I still think the OP post needs to mention that this scenario requires the Build 1500 version to work, since it's not fully released yet.

[HalfLifeExpert]

I've tried this a couple times, and this is what I've noticed:

First, the issue I just reported here: (https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1#p5200011),

really hampers the usefulness of HMS Tapir, as the speed of the convoy combined with very limited surface speed makes it very difficult to get into position to properly attack the convoy with torpedoes.

Second, in the instances when the Indonesians have gone hostile, I found that there's really no effective defense against the F-51 airstrikes. The AAA didn't seem to offer reliable defense.

Third, the Soviet submarines, in this shallow environment, make it almost a forgone conclusion that one or more of your ships will be lost. Every time I've encountered a submarine the vessel was lost in short order. The available ASW weapons, aside from Tapir, which is again severely hampered by the above issues, are far too short ranged to avoid being taken out.

[schweggy]

I've tried this a couple times, and this is what I've noticed:

First, the issue I just reported here: (https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 1#p5200011),

really hampers the usefulness of HMS Tapir, as the speed of the convoy combined with very limited surface speed makes it very difficult to get into position to properly attack the convoy with torpedoes.

Second, in the instances when the Indonesians have gone hostile, I found that there's really no effective defense against the F-51 airstrikes. The AAA didn't seem to offer reliable defense.

Third, the Soviet submarines, in this shallow environment, make it almost a forgone conclusion that one or more of your ships will be lost. Every time I've encountered a submarine the vessel was lost in short order. The available ASW weapons, aside from Tapir, which is again severely hampered by the above issues, are far too short ranged to avoid being taken out.

I played this scenario 2x yesterday. I too think the HMS Tapir is borderline useless... unless it's repositioned to the south of the Soviet flotilla. Perhaps at the Sunda Strait itself. As "a last line of defense." The diesel-electric subs have a very limited area they can effectively be useful. It too might fare better further south and more in-line with the Soviet line of advance. As is, it will seldom, if ever, be effective at hitting the Soviets. As far as the airstrikes go... in my two playthroughs they didn't occur. Weird.

[Mgellis]

Thanks, as always, for the feedback.

Balance is a problem in this scenario, I think. I found a website that identifies ships actually on station in different parts of the world for the Royal Navy...

https://www.naval-history.net/xGW-RNOrg ... 7-2013.htm

...and the British ships available in the 1950s have some limitations when it comes to ASW. I added Tapir because she at least gave the British something a little more effective than the ships and their ASW mortars.

Maybe I should make this a pure surface vs. surface scenario, with Indonesia remaining neutral? It seemed like that made the scenario too easy, though. Perhaps set things up so the Soviet convoy will go through the strait in the middle of the night where it will be harder to spot her? Or remove the Indonesian aircraft but give them artillery at the shores of the strait so the British have to be careful about how they get close to the convoy?

Any thoughts on all this?

[HalfLifeExpert]

A pure surface scenario might be better, and Indonesian coastal guns near/in the strait could be a neat feature.

Increased challenge could perhaps be offered by having the weather conditions be rather bad, with rainy conditions making any hypothetical air-ops by the Indonesians very unlikely, thereby justifying the lack of Indonesian aircraft even though they might enter the war on the Soviet side. Perhaps a late and weak monsoon could be hitting the area.

Bad sea state could massively complicate things, so perhaps there's serious rain but not much wind.

Perhaps we could keep one submarine on each side IF:

they are operating on the far side of the strait, with the British sub hoping to set up a fallback ambush position, and the Soviet subs (one or two) hoping to sanitize the area in advance of the convoy. Make the subs an almost separate-but-related action on the IO side of the strait.

This would create the added decision for the player on whether or not to risk sending their surface ships through the strait, with the downside being that one submarine could ultimately fail to strike the convoy or convoy remnants. If the RN sub is lost, they would have to choose whether to 'run the gauntlet' at the added risk of the Soviet sub.

[MauriceB]

Yah, that OPFOR sub is brutal. Could not close with the DDs.
BUT, I'm not sure i like the idea of an all surface mission, seems a little bland.

[tylerblakebrandon]

Yah, that OPFOR sub is brutal. Could not close with the DDs.
BUT, I'm not sure i like the idea of an all surface mission, seems a little bland.

Just my $0.02, one of the strengths of CMO is showing the strengths/Limits of the various units in their era. So there's something the player can learn through such a scenario in a way you just can get from a book.

[Mgellis]

Just uploaded version 2. Switched a few things around (got rid of the Indonesian aircraft, but watch out for other surprises) that I hope will make things more balanced but still interesting.

Please let me know what you think.

Thanks!

[MauriceB]

Just uploaded version 2...

I assume the link in the original post is the new scenario?

[Mgellis]

Yes, version 2 is now the one you can download.

[Mgellis]

Has anyone had a chance to try Version 2 yet? Is it ready for the Community Scenario Pack or is there anything else that needs to be fixed, changed, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

[schweggy]

Hey Mark,

I finished ver. 2 a couple days ago. The UK sub's position is suitable for any escaping Soviet ships provided;
- The Soviets are still able to navigate
- There's time enough to reposition the sub

In my playthrough the Soviet's lead ship must have been hit hard enough to cause the entire convoy to halt significantly north of the Sunda Strait. I ended up losing the Alert and one of the DD's during the surface action, but the Soviet convoy just sat there. After several hours of hit and run attacks on it I called it quits and checked the scoring. I don't recall the score, but it was around 600 or so.

The sub is perfectly positioned should the Soviet convoy be able to transit that area, but as I said, if the lead ship in the group is disabled they all stop.

[Mgellis]

Thanks for catching that. It's actually easy to fix...assign the group to a support mission located close the end of the group's pre-set course. All the ships are headed there now, so even if the group leader is taken out, and they interrupt their initial course, the rest should head to the location of the support mission, although it may take a slightly different route.

Hey Mark,

I finished ver. 2 a couple days ago. The UK sub's position is suitable for any escaping Soviet ships provided;
- The Soviets are still able to navigate
- There's time enough to reposition the sub

In my playthrough the Soviet's lead ship must have been hit hard enough to cause the entire convoy to halt significantly north of the Sunda Strait. I ended up losing the Alert and one of the DD's during the surface action, but the Soviet convoy just sat there. After several hours of hit and run attacks on it I called it quits and checked the scoring. I don't recall the score, but it was around 600 or so.

The sub is perfectly positioned should the Soviet convoy be able to transit that area, but as I said, if the lead ship in the group is disabled they all stop.

[Mgellis]

Uploaded Version 3 with a couple of minor tweaks. It should take care of any issues with the Soviet group going off course or with one of the Indonesian ships running out of fuel.

Does anything else need to be fixed or is this ready for the Community Scenario Pack?

Thanks.

[schweggy]

Thanks for catching that. It's actually easy to fix...assign the group to a support mission located close the end of the group's pre-set course. All the ships are headed there now, so even if the group leader is taken out, and they interrupt their initial course, the rest should head to the location of the support mission, although it may take a slightly different route.

Hey Mark,

I finished ver. 2 a couple days ago. The UK sub's position is suitable for any escaping Soviet ships provided;
- The Soviets are still able to navigate
- There's time enough to reposition the sub

In my playthrough the Soviet's lead ship must have been hit hard enough to cause the entire convoy to halt significantly north of the Sunda Strait. I ended up losing the Alert and one of the DD's during the surface action, but the Soviet convoy just sat there. After several hours of hit and run attacks on it I called it quits and checked the scoring. I don't recall the score, but it was around 600 or so.

The sub is perfectly positioned should the Soviet convoy be able to transit that area, but as I said, if the lead ship in the group is disabled they all stop.

I'll run it again today or tomorrow. Clever choice of a support mission. If I knew how to script with Lua I'd just use that to assign a new lead if the original one was disabled/destroyed. Probably maintain formation integrity that way too.

[Mgellis]

Yeah, I can use some of the simple "one line of code, fill in the blanks" lua commands for actions, but that's about the point where my scripting skill breaks down. (This is odd because I'm actually pretty good at writing scripts for Inspiration Padpro, but I think it is a much simpler scripting language.) I keep meaning to sit down and teach myself how to do more complicated things with lua, but I never get around to it.

I'll run it again today or tomorrow. Clever choice of a support mission. If I knew how to script with Lua I'd just use that to assign a new lead if the original one was disabled/destroyed. Probably maintain formation integrity that way too.

[schweggy]

I think the only modification I'd do at this point is to move the UK sub a little bit closer to the Sunda Strait. It will take it the majority of game time to just get into a likely intercept position from it's current starting point.