Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues

[TwarVG]

It'll be tricky to provide documentation that the RAF/RN/AAC never procured a particular system but I'll do my best to address each point.

Apache Guardian AH.Mk.2

AGM-114L - I tend to keep up to date with news on the equipment acquisitions by the British Armed Forces and have read Ed Macy's books 'Apache' and 'Hellfire' and there are only ever mentions of laser guided variants of the Hellfire being used, radar guided variants don't meet ROE requirements of having a 'man-in-the-loop' to abort a strike in process. A requirement that led to the development of the Dual-Mode Brimstone variant. I suppose it's entirely possible that this variant has been acquired, but I can't find any information to suggest it has.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110601002 ... E_416.html

Brimstone 2 - Brimstone 2 was flight tested and fired from a Boeing AH-64E test bed helicopter back in 2016 on behalf of, and funded by, the MoD to test how risky integration would be and the trials were very successful. The British Army are yet to actually confirm that Brimstone has been selected for the Future Attack Helicopter Weapon (FAHW) so this is more of a near future best guess, but it would make sense given the low risk integration and how much easier it would be on inter-service logistics when operating from the same bases/ships. If the UK is ever going to integrate it onto the Apache, it'll likely be immediately following the AH-64E refurbishments of the existing fleet. The best I've got for a 25 mile range is Wikipedia's specifications info box on the Brimstone article I'm afraid so I've not got much there.
https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-rele ... elicopter/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone_(missile)

AIM-92E Stinger ATAS - The UK has never expressed an interest in the AIM-92E so I can only assume it was added in a hurry in line with the American AH-64E variants in the database. The MoD vaguely mulled over the idea of integrating the Starstreak onto Apaches but it never went anywhere as there was no requirement or demand for an air-to-air missile. Again, I have no documentation to prove they don't have it, but you won't find any proving they do and nobody has ever made mention of a British Apache equipped in such a manner.

HYDRA 70 and CRV-7 - Although Wikipedia claims that the UK is an operator of the HYDRA 70, I've never seen or found any record of a British aircraft employing the weapon. During WW2 and the early Cold War period, British aircraft carried the 3-inch RP-3 rocket. This was then replaced by the French SNEB 68mm rocket throughout much of the Cold War, and was ultimately replaced on the Jaguar, Harrier, and eventually integrated onto the Apache fleet upon its entry into service in 2005, by the Canadian CRV-7 which was judged to be superior in most aspects to its American counterpart. Given that British Apaches have happily employed the weapon for over a decade, it doesn't make much sense for them to abandon it following a refit when there are probably thousands of them in the stockpile, and I can't find anything to suggest they will.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRV7

Buccaneer S.2B

Mk18 1000lb RET Bomb - The primary air-to-ground munition of the Buccaneer was the GP 1000lb bomb. These bombs came with a variety of fuzing options, such as airburst, instantaneous, and delayed fuzing. They also came with 2 different tail assemblies which were the standard low drag, general purpose assembly, and the high drag retarded assembly. The Buccaneer absolutely personified high speed, low level bombing runs both over land and sea where high drag bombs were essential for low level delivery and not getting killed. As is typical with many British munitions, I can't find much in the way of documentation, but I do have a video of a Buccaneer pilot who was at one of the early Red Flags describing a typical attack against an airfield in a Buccaneer where he describes using retarded 1000lb bombs to execute a laydown attack against a runway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24CaLD8l0OE
Start at 7:48ish for the exact part, but I would highly recommend watching the full thing for more insight into the mighty Banana Bomber!

British General Purpose Bombs

Overview - In recent times, there have been only 2 unguided GP bombs in British service. These are the 540lb GP bomb, which does have a DB entry although only a South African and Australian Canberra are listed as default carriers, and the more common 1000lb GP bomb. Both of these bombs came with multiple fuzing options and tail assemblies which I listed in the above paragraph with the 540lb bomb simply being a scaled down version of the 1000lb. Every British aircraft since the Buccaneer has carried the 1000lb bomb, including the Typhoon as they're largely used for training purposes these days with inert warheads. However, the only aircraft that I know definitely carried the 540lb bomb are the RAF Harriers and Jaguars. In James Barrington's book 'Joint Force Harrier' he describes a typical loadout over Afghanistan for a pair of Harriers was a Sniper TGP, a Digital Joint Reconnaissance Pod, 2 fuel tanks, a pair of 19-shot CRV-7 rocket pods each, a pair of Paveway IV LGBs on one aircraft, and a pair of 540lb GP bombs set to airburst on the other to get around the heavy restrictions on using cluster munitions but still maintaining an AOE weapon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General-p ... h_GP_bombs
https://slideplayer.com/slide/4665910/1 ... e+Bomb.jpg
https://images.slideplayer.com/38/10779 ... lide_7.jpg
https://defenceoftherealm.files.wordpre ... 4/10/5.jpg

540lb GP Bomb - As mentioned above, high and low drag versions of the 540lb bomb would be welcome additions to all of the Harrier and Jaguar entries.

Lightning II

JDAMs - The UK has never operated any JDAM variant because the UK does not use any of the Mk82/83/84 GP bombs and has Enhanced Paveway variants for each class of bomb operated, providing both GPS and laser guidance.

CPU-123 Paveway II GPS/LGB - This is the correct 1000lb class guided munition for RAF/FAA aircraft. I can't find any documentation 'proving' that it's slated for integration, but it isn't part of the initial weapons package and there's no reason why they wouldn't add it later on along with other weapons like Meteor considering how low risk it would be.

GBU-24E/B Paveway III GPS/LGB [BLU-109A/B] - Once again, this is the correct 2000lb class weapon operated by the UK with the penetration warhead. I can't actually find anything about integration onto the Lightning, but seeing as there was already a 2000lb bomb in the way of the GBU-31 in its loadout, I thought it fitting to change it to a weapon actually operated by the UK. It's entirely up to you whether to add it or not.

Poseidon MRA.1

Mk50 and Mk54 HAAWC - So far the RAF has committed to purchasing American weapons and other consumables for the Poseidon MRA.1 fleet in order to speed up the type's entry into service, whilst British weapons, sonobouys, decoys etc. are to be considered for a later date. So far these are only the standard Mk54 Mod 0 LWT, no mention of the Mk50 or the wing kit.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain ... -poseidon/

Protector RG.1

Brimstone 2 - When the UK first acquired a fleet of RPAS they were rushed into service and pooled with American assets in order to speed up their entry into service. As such, American weapons such as Hellfire and GBU-12, which were already cleared for use, were used in order to increase commonality between the British and American platforms and avoid integration time and costs for British weapons. Now that the UK's own fleet of RPAS is rapidly growing, with up to 20 Protectors to be purchased alongside the existing fleet of 10 Reapers which will eventually be phased out, and with the US not purchasing Protector as of yet, there's no reason to maintain so much interchangeability with the USAF fleet. There's also no rush to get these aircraft in service so the time can be taken to integrate British weapons onto the aircraft and ideally start to phase the Hellfire out of Army and Air Force service and replace it with Brimstone in all 3 services.
https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-rele ... -aircraft/

Paveway IV - No documentation for this one aside from promo imgaes, but I imagine for much the same reasons Brimstone will replace Hellfire on British aircraft, Paveway IV will be integrated onto the Protector fleet instead of GBU-12s now that they're less reliant on American integration and have a broader time frame to complete it on.

GBU-49/B Paveway II GPS/LGB - I can't seem to find any documentation to suggest that the UK acquired GBU-49s over the old GBU-12s. Every picture of an RAF Reaper I can find where it's armed with bombs it shows a GBU-12. The GBU-49s have a distinct grey vein or pipe? running down the right hand side of the weapon which none of the bombs on the RAF Reapers seem to have.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... oops#img-1

Hardpoints - All promotional images and descriptions of the Protector RG.1 system state that it has 6 underwing hardpoints, each capable of sustaining a triplet of Brimstone 2 missiles. Some also show a pair of Paveway IV on the inner pylons.
https://www.defenceonline.co.uk/wp-cont ... flight.jpg

Typhoon FGR.4/T.3

GBU-24E/B Paveway III GPS/LGB [BLU-109A/B] - The Paveway III LGB and subsequent Enhanced Paveway III GPS/LGB have been in service with the RAF since at least the first Gulf War, and was one of the original weapons added to Typhoon when she was given air-to-ground capabilities and was first used by a Typhoon during Operation Ellamy in Libya in 2011. The RAF to my knowledge does not operate a GP 2000lb weapon, only a penetrating one.
https://www.defencetalk.com/raf-deploys ... ons-34553/

Brite Cloud Active Expendable Decoy - The UK has recently trialled and is beginning to enter the Brite Cloud decoy onto the Typhoon fleet using the existing 55mm counter measure dispensers.
https://www.janes.com/article/85668/bri ... ntegration

Type 45 Destroyer

324mm Twin Torpedo Tubes - The Type 45 was never fitted with torpedo tubes and instead relies on its helicopter for ASW purposes. Not entirely sure why it was added in the first place, minor oversight I assume.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_d ... and-attack

RGM-84L Harpoon II - The Harpoon launchers fitted to the Type 45s are recycled launchers from the old batch 3 Type 22 Frigates which were removed upon their decommissioning and draw missiles from the same stockpile as the Type 23 Frigates, Block 1C missiles which were first acquired in the 1980s to eventually replace Exocet. Upgraded Harpoons have not been acquired and current stocks are set to go out of service in 2023.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... s.pdf.html
https://www.janes.com/article/82025/uk- ... eplacement

Batch 1 and 2 Ships - There are no Batch 1 and Batch 2 Type 45 Destroyers, 6 ships of the class were built to identical standards with the only difference being that 2 of the ships aren't equipped with Harpoon, which is usually the ones in port undergoing maintenance. Only 2 entries are needed as of present, the existing 2012 version without Harpoon, and the 2015 version with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_45_d ... _the_class



Paveway IV - As per the latest DB update, most of the guided bombs had their release parameters changed to allow drops at 2000ft and above, the Paveway IV is still restricted to 10000ft and above.

Well, this has taken me many hours of dredging through the depths of the internet to find as much info as I can, I hope it was worth it! Hopefully it's enough to get at least some of my changes through, if you have a problem with any them give me a shout and I'll have another crack at digging up some dirt. Thanks very much for the hard work you do Wayne, it's very much appreciated!

[stilesw]

It'll be tricky to provide documentation that the RAF/RN/AAC never procured a particular system but I'll do my best to address each point.

Ben,

Thanks. This will help a lot with the evaluation process. Probably won't see any changes until the next big release with an updated database and I don't have any control over that (thankfully!).

-Wayne

[Tookatee]

For artillery that should be included, Spain operates 96 of the M109A5 Paladin (upgraded from M019A1's since 1999, source: archived Forecast International report), six of the M109A2 Paladin, 84 of the Santa Bárbara Sistemas 155/52 (a 155mm towed artillery piece entering into service in 2002 it's APU allows a top speed of 18 kph and a munition range of 40 km with RAP), and 56 of the L-118A1 (since 1996, source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database) which has a 21 km range with RAP (for reference for see the Wikipedia page for the Spanish Army.)

Historically, Spain also operated 96 of the M109A1 (first entering service in 1975 before being upgraded to the A5 standard in 1999, source: SIPRI Arms Transfers Database)

[Tookatee]

Spain is missing MBTs in their entirety. Their most modern MBTs that should be included are their special Leopard 2E (219 are currently in service and it entered service in 2003) and the standard Leopard 2 A4 (they have 108 in active service and 54 in reserve with it entering service in 1998 as an interim tank while they were developing the 2E with Germany[see the Wikipedia page for the Leopard 2E as reference for both].)

[Tookatee]

Historically, Spain also operated the: M60A3 TTS since 1990 when the Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe allowed them to purchase the resultant surplus tanks, the AMX-30 as the AMX-30E (280 were produced from 1974 to 1983 and it was in service until 1998 when Spain received the Leopard 2 A4) 130 of these tanks were also upgraded to the AMX-30EM2 which boasted a new Sabot round, additional space for a larger anti-aircraft MG, and new engines/transmissions, and finally the upgraded variants of the M48 Patton tanks as the M48A5E1 which were incrementally upgraded through the 1980s (by 1984, 272 were upgraded to the A5E1 standard[for reference for see the Wikipedia page for the Spanish Army].)

[Tookatee]

The B1 Centaruo is also missing from many nations including Spain (which has 84 of them that entered service in 2000, source SIPRI Arms Transfers Database), Jordan is also another operator of the Centauro (operating 24 of the vehicle since 2017 after deliveries from Italy, source SIPRI Arms Transfers Database.) Finally, Omon operates 6 of the 120mm Centauro since 2010, source SIPRI Arms Transfers Database)

[Tookatee]

Poland, one of the front-line NATO countries that would face Russia and a former satellite nation of the Soviet Union is also missing all of it's current and historical armor and most of its artillery.

The armor that should be included are the PT-91 Twardy (entered service in 1995 as a development of the T-72M1 with ERA and improved FCS) with 92 PT-91 (newly built tanks), 27 PT-91MA (modernized T-72M tanks), and 113 PT-91MA1 (modernized T-72M1 tanks).

Additionally there should be 105 Leopard 2A5s and 142 Leopard 2A4s that were delivered in 2002. (SIPRI Arms Transfers Database)

There are also currently 159 operational T-72s (originally entered service in 1972 after delivery from the Soviets and then domestically produced as the T-72M [starting in 1982] and M1 [Starting in 1983].) Source: Wikipedia for the Polish army and the SIPRI Arms Transfers Database.

[Tookatee]

For missing Polish IFVs they currently operate 1,131 BWP-1s (Polish designation for the BMP-1, entered service in 1973) and over 720 of the Finnish KBWP Rosomak (entered service in 2004, with deliveries still in progress.)

[Tookatee]

For artillery Poland should have 111 of the Wz. 1977 Dana, a Czechoslovakian (this country is also missing this artillery, which entered service for them in 1981) artillery 152mm wheeled SPG with a fire rate of 3 rounds per minute, a maximum weapons range of 28 km, a commanders seat DŠKM, and a top speed of 50 mph (entered Polish service in 1982). Source: Wikipedia article for the Wz. and the SIPRI Arms Transfers Database.

Poland also should include AT Humvees called the Tumak-5, currently 18 of them are in service that use the Spike LR missile system. There should also be Spike LR AT infantry that have been in service since 2004 with there being an inventory of 264 missiles (source Polish army equipment Wikipedia.)

[Mgellis]

I was trying to put together the 2019 Standing NATO Maritime Group 2, but two of the ships are missing!

Please consider adding the following...

Albania
Damen Stan Type 4207 patrol boat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_Naval_Force
https://products.damen.com/en/ranges/st ... 4207-oriku <-- technical information, shows sensors used, and it has a RHIB
https://navaltoday.com/2017/11/22/alban ... eployment/
https://www.monch.com/mpg/news/maritime ... nnavy.html <-- NARWHAL 20mm remotely operated naval turret system

Turkey
Tuzla-class patrol boat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuzla-class_patrol_boat
https://turkishnavy.net/patrol-craft/tuzla-class/

Turkmenistan
Tuzla-class patrol boat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuzla-class_patrol_boat <-- 10 on the Caspian sea...if you're adding them for Turkey, you might as well add them for Turkmenistan
https://www.navyrecognition.com/index.p ... ystem.html <-- Turkmenistan seems to have added these to their Tuzlas
https://eurasianet.org/turkmenistans-na ... h-missiles

Thanks for considering these.

[miller7219]

The Charles F. Adams class DDGs were produced in two groups (commonly referred to as "A" and "B"). The only difference I see is the CF Adams A mount a dual rail Mk 11, while the CF Adams B mounts a single arm Mk 13.

CF Adams A (13)

DDG 2 CF Adams - DDG 14 Buchanan

CF Adams B (10)

DDG 15 Berkeley - DDG 24 Waddell (although DDG 18 Semmes was the first commissioned "B" and I've seen the "B's" referred to as the Semmes class in a couple of sources)

An additional 6x CF Adams B's were produced abroad for the West German and Australian Navies (DDG 28 Lutjens and DDG 25 Perth classes).


Check:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05idx.htm

view the pictures of each CF Adams platform and you can verify the mount. I've also poured over numerous Jane's references from the 60's and 70's and Harpoon reference works and they all support the mount information on Navsource.

In the current DB3000 it lists the US CF Adams and the Tattnall (not sure why the Tattnall is separated out as a subclass). Both mount the Mk 11. Can we get a CF Adams B mounting the Mk 13?

The West German and Australian "B's" all correctly mount a Mk 13.

[ProdigyofMilitaryPride]

Allow me to share some suggestions for Mexican Land Units...

ERC-90 Lynx Armored Car Platoon

Armaments
90mm F1 Cannon
Twin 7.62mm Machine Guns

HWK 11 APC Platoon
7.62mm Machine Gun

VCR APC Platoon
12.7mm Machine Gun

AMX-VCI APC Platoon
12.7mm Machine Gun

M8 Greyhound Recon Vehicle
37mm M6 Gun
.30 Cal Browning Machine Gun

VBL Milan
Milan ATGM

[trujillocorreo]

Reviewing update 1009.31.1
tm.asp?m=4645598

I noticed that the following revisions were not included:

fb.asp?m=4599863

fb.asp?m=4600739

fb.asp?m=4601910

Some of these modifications I had previously made and are necessary for some scenarios in which I am working.

Thanks

[orca]

Thanks for the recent great DB updates! Can you add RIM-174A ERAM SM-6 Blk 1A and Aster 30 Blk 1 (ABM) as weapon records so we can use the scenario editor to add it to units?

[Tookatee]

Just found a gamebreaking error, whenever you try to fire the Wan Chien Anti-Runway Cruise missile (a Taiwanese weapon for the F-CK-1D aircraft) all simulation stops and doesn't progress no matter the time compression (even if you open a new scenario.) This means you have to close and reopen the program (while also losing all your progress in the current scenario because it won't actually save the scenario, it may show that it had completed the save cycle but when you reopen the program the scenario is how it was when you last saved it or the new save file you created won't exist.)

[Tookatee]

Another vehicle that is missing from the latest database is the BMPT-Terminator. The BMPT is a Russian AFV with twin 30 mm 2A42 autocannons, two AG-17D grenade launchers, a coaxial 7.62 PKTM, and four 9M120 Ataka missile launchers and is built off of the T-72 chassis. It has a top speed of 60 kph and a maximum range of 550 km.

Kahazakstan was the first operator of the vehicle starting in 2013 with ten delivered so far.

The vehicle entered service in Russia in 2018 with more than 10 vehicles delivered, however this version is the Terminator-3 which uses the chassis of the T-90A rather than the T-72.

Source: Wikipedia page for the BMPT Terminator

[Tookatee]

Also checking it looks like you're also missing the T-15 Armata. It shares the same Afganit APS that's on the already implemented T-14, but has several different equipable modules instead of the 125mm cannon, the first is the Bumerang-BM remote weapon station turret with a 30 mm automatic cannon with 160 AP rounds and 340 HE rounds (2A42), four ready to fire 9M133 Kornet-EM anti-tank missiles, and a PKT 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun with 2000 rounds, next is the DUBM-57 Kinzhal remote weapon station turret with the 57mm BM-57 autocannon and two ready to fire Ataka-T ATGM missiles, and finally there is the AU-220M Baikal remote weapon station with the BM-57 (with 200 rounds of ammunition of either the 53-UBR-281U Armor-piercing Tracer Round and/or the 53-ERM-281U Fragmentation Tracer Round firing at 120 RPM, source from army guide dot com article on the AU-220M), a coaxial PKMT machine gun with 2000 rounds, and two ready to fire 9M120-1 Ataka ATGM missiles.

It has a top speed of 65 to 70 kph, weighs 48 tons, and has a maximum range of 550 km.

Main Source: The Wikipedia article for the T-15.

[zyc120c]

Hey, there. I have some thing to report about Taiwan's Sky Bow III air defence system&#65288;#888&#65289;.(or Tien-Kung III)

As the DB right now, the Sky Bow III is a target altitude from 100k to 80k ft AGL, THAAD-like ABM system. However, as the Sky Bow III producer NCSIST(National Chung-Shan Institute of Science and Technology) subscribe in its website, it is

The Tien-Kung III (abbreviated as TK III) is a land-based surface to air weapon system developed by NCSIST. The system is designed to engage different threats, including: aircrafts, cruise missiles, anti-radiation missiles, and short range tactical missiles.

So rather than a THAAD-like ABM system, I think it is much more like a PAC-2 GEM -a SAM system has ABM ability.

Reference:I cant post links, you can find it on NCSIST's wed site(they have English version)

[Dimitris]

fb.asp?m=4647045

Thank you for the update! Just a heads up, the SM-2 Block IIIC is missing its CEC capability and has too low of Anti-Air range of 50 NMI, according to Raytheon it should be at least 90 NMI. Sources are linked below [:D]

https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/products/sm-2

https://defence-blog.com/news/raytheon- ... ssile.html

[stilesw]

The Charles F. Adams class DDGs were produced in two groups (commonly referred to as "A" and "B"). The only difference I see is the CF Adams A mount a dual rail Mk 11, while the CF Adams B mounts a single arm Mk 13.

Mike,

Logged for evaluation. Thanks.

-Wayne