Naval and Air Interception Should Be Changed

[canuckgamer]

Naval and air interception attempts occur in the destination hex. This and the rule that units in a port of size 5 and larger cannot be attacked by naval units leads to some very unrealistic situations. In our pbem game I had Truk blockaded for multiple turns. In fact I had naval units in every adjacent hex. However because transports can move through a hex that is occupied by enemy naval units and the naval/air interception rules the Japanese were able to move another ground unit in to Truk after it's existing unit was eliminated without any interception attempts.

I think interception should be revised so that transports moving to a large port should at least face some attempted interceptions. This is the opposite of transports carrying ground units trying to invade within air and naval interception range.

[ThunderLizard11]

Good suggestion

[ncc1701e]

In fact I had naval units in every adjacent hex.

A little gamey isn't it?

However because transports can move through a hex that is occupied by enemy naval units and the naval/air interception rules the Japanese were able to move another ground unit in to Truk after it's existing unit was eliminated without any interception attempts.

Could you please clarify the end of your sentence?

However because transports can move through a hex that is occupied by enemy naval units and the naval/air interception rules the Japanese were able to move another ground unit in to Truk after it's existing unit was eliminated without any [naval or air or both] interception attempts.

And, if my understanding of the rule is correct, okay the transport is in the port. Was your opponent able to unload its content? I guess not since under port blockade, nothing can be unload inside the port.

[canuckgamer]

I agree with you, it is gamey but unless you occupy every adjacent hex, the bockade can be lifted by moving one naval group adjacent to the port. The fact that I couldn't intercept transports moving in to a large port like Truk is why I used that gamey tactic.
I should have clarified that after multiple turns of blockading Truk the Japs were able to destroy a naval group in one of the adjacent hexes. He then moved a transport in to Truk.
I like the interception rule because it can react to an enemy move during his turn. However I think it is flawed as per my example. When you blockade a port, supplies cannot get through. Although abstracted, the supplies must be getting there by transport. This being the case why is that transports carrying ground units are immune to interception when moving in to a large port?

[canuckgamer]

Here is a detailed summary of what happened at Truk. After three turns using my tactic of completely surrounding Truk with fleets I invaded with a marine unit and destroyed the defending ground unit. However because the weather was rain I could not advance in to Truk. Oddly enough the 6 AA in Truk were destroyed.
In the following Japanese turn he was fortunate enough to sink the lone naval group I had in one of the surrounding hexes and immediately transported a new ground unit in to Truk.
Although I have not tested it by hot seat I assume that an interception attempt would be made against transported ground units trying to move in to a port that is size 4 and less.

[Nirosi]

My understanding (and experience in WarPlan Europe anyway) is that the interception would occur and the port size does not matter as the interception is in the hex but just outside the port. Port 5+ only protect the naval units already inside the port if the enemy tries to attack them during their own move.

Where the naval unit in raider mode by chance? Then they would not try interception.

[canuckgamer]

As you know, in War Plan Europe the only two ports that can be blockaded are Gibraltar and Malta and don't know if it plays differently in that game.
I had dozens of naval groups surrounding Truk and according to my friend who is playing the Japs he did not see a interception attempt against the ground unit that he moved in to Truk. Yes all my naval units were set to fleet. He also moved an air unit in to Truk but without a replay I couldn't tell if it flew in there or was transport in. I know that air units in blockaded ports can still fly missions.
The rule indicates that interception attempts are made in the destination hex which is why this happens when you move to a beach hex to invade that is in range of enemy air or naval units. I have lost transported ground units trying to invade. However since a port size 5 and larger cannot be attacked by enemy naval unit I believe that is the reason you can transport ground and or air units in to the port without them being intercepted.
Maybe Alvaro can clarify and what changes and how he is thinking of handling this in War Plan 2.

[Nirosi]

However since a port size 5 and larger cannot be attacked by enemy naval unit

Yes but that rule seems to be coming from WarPlan and it had never stopped interceptions in the target hex (would be strange too!), unless it is a bug. I'll just test it to be 100% sure.

[Nirosi]

I just tested a few attempts with the 1942 scenario. I tried 12 times on two different ports at 1 range (which should be a good level of success).

The only two interception (out of 12) occurred when CVs were involved. If only surface ships are trying to stop the enemy to go to their own ports, no interceptions seems to occur or be attempted. Size of port does not seem to matter as size 1 (Port Vila) or 8 (Rabaul) did not make any difference. Actually, the two interceptions with CVs were on Rabaul. Could very well be a bug I would think?

Hence, I'm still close to 100% sure that interceptions are supposed to occur in the hex but outside port, same in WP Europe, very strange if not. But there is definitively something odd (or I was ridiculously unlucky) with the results.

[canuckgamer]

Maybe the interception attempts were only by CVs is because of the port rules. I just looked at the manual and ports of size 2-4 can be attacked by enemy surface fleets. It indicates that each port has a defense factor of 5. Naval units in a port of size 5 or greater cannot be attacked by enemy surface fleets. So only the CVs attempted interceptions because they would be using air.
I had about 6 CVs and CVLs around Truk and over the three turns there wasn't one interception attempt and I was adjacent to Truk. I also deployed a comint every turn which reduced the FOW to low although that probably was only active during my turn.
If you are correct that interception occurs in the hex outside the port then the rule in the manual is not correct as it says the interception occurs in the destination hex. Actually another question is how does the program determine the destination hex? Can't you move naval units one hex at a time?
Questions questions.

[canuckgamer]

In regards to my question about how the destination hex is determine I just did a hot seat and after two right clicks your naval move is over so I assume it is the second click that determines your destination hex. Which means a test of whether a unit is intercepted in the hex outside a port would be to move a naval unit to that hex and right click. I will try a hot seat to test.

[ago1000]

I think interception should be revised so that transports moving to a large port should at least face some attempted interceptions. This is the opposite of transports carrying ground units trying to invade within air and naval interception range.

+1 agree that change would be good.
This was mentioned in an alternate post also, if your blockade would have held, the player can select the undo button when they realize they can't unload and save their unit.

[Nirosi]

If you are correct that interception occurs in the hex outside the port then the rule in the manual is not correct as it says the interception occurs in the destination hex.

True, but it is the same wording as in WP and interceptions do occur in all port sizes there. And in my tests, no surface interceptions occurred in any port (even size 1). My feeling is that there is a bug related to interception in port hexes in WP Pacific. We can only wait for Alvaro for confirmation I guess.

[AlvaroSousa]

The transporting fleet shouldn't be able to disembark on a blockaded port.

But you should have naval dominance in the area and not need 6 units to surround a port.

If you are the Allies putting a decent fleet blockading the port should be easy late war.

[ago1000]

If you are correct that interception occurs in the hex outside the port then the rule in the manual is not correct as it says the interception occurs in the destination hex.

True, but it is the same wording as in WP and interceptions do occur in all port sizes there. And in my tests, no surface interceptions occurred in any port (even size 1). My feeling is that there is a bug related to interception in port hexes in WP Pacific. We can only wait for Alvaro for confirmation I guess.

The engines are the same and I just performed a test in the Europe 43 scenario with Malta. In the pic below, Malta is under a blockade as mentioned above and I can move a unescorted transport(fleet mode) in and out using the undo button all day and no surface interception or interdiction takes place in both games. (Only CVs will interdict-in the blockade force contains 2BBs,2CAs,3DDs(fleet mode) located at the mouth of the port above word Malta ) .
I believe that the program looks at the destination hex as written in the manual, as stated above, in both games. While the blockade holds, the transport cannot unload as mentioned above.

It would be nice if each port had an entrance hex that would be checked if enemy fleets were within range to intercept or inderdict before entering a port especially during a blockade.

[Nirosi]

Thanks for the tests. I am curious if there would be an interception if there was... no blockade (ships at range of 2+ hexes )? Maybe there is a contradiction in the script between blockade and interception? Could that be the source of the problem (a ship can not do both due to a coding glitch)?

[Nirosi]

I just tested it on Port Vila. Blockade or not does not seem to matter (tried both). From what I can see, no surface interceptions will occur (not even an attempt) in a port hex, even a size 1 port.

[ago1000]

In WPE v09 there was apparently a bug fixed:

Fixed interception going into port and made sure fleets can retreat in this combat

Not sure if this helps?

[Nirosi]

In WPE v09 there was apparently a bug fixed:

Fixed interception going into port and made sure fleets can retreat in this combat

Not sure if this helps?

Could very well be as I am sure I saw interceptions in port hexes in game before (then again, I am old so maybe delusional ).

Maybe we should put in the tech support forum to make sure Alvaro sees it and checks it?

[AlvaroSousa]

Blocking all 6 hexes doesn't do anything. It is worse.

A larger fleet has a better chance of spotting. You only need one.

If anything there might be a bug because all 6 hexes are blocked.

How the system works is that it looks for interceptors, then it puts the moving fleet in a holder variable, fights the combat, then it resumes the path. If the fleet loses it retreats.

I will take a look for next patch to make sure this is how it is working.

WP2 has interception along the way BTW.