How to make EiA playable

[DTomato]

This game isn't going to fly. It is simply too user-unfriendly. For the fanboys who played the board game to death, it's not a problem. They can play the PC version blindfolded. But for the newbie, or someone like me who played the board game 20 years, it's too much work to fight the UI. At this point, EiaNW looks like one of those games that's more admired than played.

Priority One for EiANW should be more - many more - tooltips, graphical aids and anything else that will make playing more fun and less of a chore. Other issues like dumb AI are important, but who cares about AI if the UI has driven you to despair?

Here a few areas to start with:

* Explicit help dialogs. You can't exit the Set-Up phase because "all units must be placed"? WHICH units must be placed?

* Color-coding of maps isn't a new concept. Instead of little hard-to-read squares to mark Free States, how about a menu button that, say, marks all French-controlled territory in blue (maybe diagonal lines can indicate free states, wavy lines conquered, etc.)

* Color-coding goes hand in hand with a strategic map view where friendly and enemy troops are marked (see Commander: Europe at War for an example).

DT

[DTomato]

Here's another suggestion. How about hotkeys?

[TheHellPatrol]

I agree with everything you said but i must admit after a few similar experiences, <nameless games inserted>, i assume complete responsibility for my purchase. That said, when War In The Pacific was released there was a 120+/- tutorial guide available for download at release...that document got me up and running within a couple days. With EiA, even reading the manual doesn't help at all when there are missing facts and a setup from Hell. I had thought i'd play my first game by the time my physical copy arrived...alas...i am getting too old to play these games and must go back to the "kiddie clickfest" games that at 45 years old i can still figure out and win[8|][:'(][;)].
I don't care about the alleged "brain-dead" AI...who can when the UI jumps the difficulty up 210% lol...i can see the AAR's now: "Playing as France on medium difficulty i was completely decimated by Swahili Pigmy Tribe nation"; If i just would have r-clicked on my 3rd menu from the left while counter-clicking on the flashing sprite while clenching my pectoral muscles i may have had a chance.....[X(][&o][:D]

Oh well, any game thats Setup is nigh impossible is probably way over my head...Cogito Ergo Sum[8D].

[tgb]

The suggestions are all god ones, but I think this is a very fine game as is. I actually have not found the learning curve as steep as, say CoG or FoF. I started a couple of games with the manual open next to me, and now I feel I have a pretty good sense of what to do.

Although I did have a WTF? moment a couple of hours ago when I discovered you can't load troops onto a transport in the same turn in which the transport enters the port.

[therockyfroggy]

For me, FOF and COG are super easy to play compared to this. I've started 6 games and only in two have I been able to complete the setup...I better figure it out quick cause our PBEM game is up and running.

[TheHellPatrol]

ORIGINAL: tgb

I actually have not found the learning curve as steep as, say CoG or FoF.

[;)]Agreed, those "nameless" games end up being a chore to play..for me anyhow..COG being the easier to handle in my case. I imagine once the learning of "how to play" this monster the rest will be moslty fun with little micro/minutia. There is a very nice game buried in there....somewhere...damn ADD[8|][;)].

[Irish Guards]

If you are willing to spend a wee bit a time ...
You will actually be playing one of the best Wargames Ever .. By far .. [&o]
If you have not played an ADG game before .. They are rare .. Also if you get to play a ADG game system ... [X(]
You will actually agree with why the games are shall wee say ... Complex .. [8|]

Once you learn the comp abilties and play a few .. Turns .. Pbem ... 7 players ...
Ney easy .... [:'(]
IrishDragoonGuards

[tgb]

ORIGINAL: therockyfroggy

For me, FOF and COG are super easy to play compared to this. I've started 6 games and only in two have I been able to complete the setup...I better figure it out quick cause our PBEM game is up and running.

You know that there is a setup you can load, don't you? It will give you some ideas, clear up what you are doing wrong, and allow you to start playing.

Although after using the setup the game comes with, I started building my own. Unfortunately, I never remember to save them [:'(]

[DTomato]

I don't like Crown of Glory. But COG's problem is poor design choices, like the ridiculous economic system.

EiANW's problem is an abysmal , non-intuitive interface. Gamers are more likely to play a poorly designed game with a good interface than a great game with a lousy one. Sad but true. If EiANW was a short game, the interface might not be such an issue. But spending a year fighting dialog boxes and "all units must be placed during set-up"? Not going to happen, except for a handful of die-hard fans.

I think the developers concentrated so hard on remaining faithful to the board game, that they forgot that being faithful is not enough. A computer game has to be playable in its own right.

[tgb]

I don't understand why people are having such a hard time with a very simple (to me) rule: During setup, all your starting factors have to be placed in either containers or garrisons. Containers and depots can be saved for later placement. If you don't know what starting factors you have, rtfm. It's in there right in the chapter called....ummmmm....SETUP.

The only rules I had a tough time understanding were the land combat rules, and once I got the charts deciphered they were a piece of cake.

And this is coming from someone whonot only sucks at this sort of game, but never played the board game.

[Arditi]

&nbsp; Personally, I think this ported game&nbsp;is outstanding.[:)]&nbsp; It is quite faithful to the boardgame which is a classic in it's own right.&nbsp; Yes, there are a few things(in game)&nbsp;that could stand sharpening, but this was a complex boardgame in the first place; that&nbsp;the developer has done a darn good job of bringing to us.&nbsp; I don't have a problem with the interface.&nbsp; It can be a bit odd getting to know any interface at first, but you know what...for all past serious players of board EIA(no snobbery intended[:)]) we now have a solid pbem vehicle which makes finishing a pbem/ or face to face game realizable.&nbsp; I like the game a lot!...and I think that the developer will be finetuning this baby for our enjoyment to come.&nbsp; Now, I need to continue calling all my college EIA buddies to get a long distance pbem game going!&nbsp; Thanks for the fine game.&nbsp; I have been looking forward to this baby for some time now.
&nbsp;&nbsp; Best Regards, Arditi[:)]

[DodgyDave]

heh, i have written alot about this game now, but i like it, just dont like the AI and so looking forward to games begin with other players instead and i am always looking forward to the expansion, i want the 1792 setup heheh

[Jimmer]

ORIGINAL: Arditi

  Personally, I think this ported game is outstanding.[:)]  It is quite faithful to the boardgame which is a classic in it's own right.  Yes, there are a few things(in game) that could stand sharpening, but this was a complex boardgame in the first place; that the developer has done a darn good job of bringing to us.  I don't have a problem with the interface.  It can be a bit odd getting to know any interface at first, but you know what...for all past serious players of board EIA(no snobbery intended[:)]) we now have a solid pbem vehicle which makes finishing a pbem/ or face to face game realizable.  I like the game a lot!...and I think that the developer will be finetuning this baby for our enjoyment to come.  Now, I need to continue calling all my college EIA buddies to get a long distance pbem game going!  Thanks for the fine game.  I have been looking forward to this baby for some time now.
  Best Regards, Arditi[:)]

It's interesting you bring up college buddies and long distance: Between our first and second grand campaign games, one of the players moved out of state. But, he really didn't like giving up the game, so, we played long-distance. Literally. We bought a speakerphone, and he bought a copy of the game, and we played over the phone.

And, yes, to answer your unwritten question, I'm weird.

[cdbeck]

Ok... here is my two cents:

The manual is relatively worthless. Sure, it helps me understand the technical aspects of the game, but it never quite helps me understand "why" I would want to do something, or what the difference of certain things are.

For example, things I had to learn on my own (or have yet to learn):

• The difference between minor "states" of ally, Free State, Conquered minor
• Some of the peace stipulations are vague and never explained, in particular Royal Marriage
• What the leader stats do (it is RIDICULOUS that this is NOT in the manual, clearly outlined)
• The prices in manpower and cash of Infantry, Militia, Guards, Artillery
• What are the particular limitations to assigning reinforcements (seems you cannot assign them to corps in enemy or conquered territory... but I have no idea about the rules)
• Why would I ever want to make something into a Free State?
• Why would I ever want to "Create a Kingdom?" What benefits does this confer?

As far as interface is concerned, there are some MAJOR things that need to change a bit to make it more user friendly, responsive, and provide appropriate levels of feedback:

• Peace treaties and alliances between major powers are accepted in the tiny event log with no other sort of notification. This need a nice "PRUSSIA has ACCEPTED FRANCE'S peace unconditional peace proposal," or "PRUSSIA is now ALLIED with FRANCE." A nice pop-up would not be unwelcome here.
• In clicking my corps to move them about, I often end up un-assigning my leader. Not sure why, but this is just annoying.
• There should be a "forage all in stack" button. It gets a bit old having to click on each unit and forage (and the auto-forage button does not hit all units for some reason). The same could be said about "Select stack to move" so that you don't have to click each one. Maybe this already exists, but I have not figured it out.
• It is difficult to know where I can build a depot. It would be nice to have an overlay or something for this. Same with where I can place newly built corps containers.

That being said, I actually really like the gameplay underneath all of this cumbersome UI. As far as fun and strategy goes, this game has loads, and the potential here is enormous. The diplomacy menu is cumbersome, but the things you can do with it are amazing (particularly thinking that this game is really built to have some "automation" with PBEM games).

SoM

[cckcdw]

Hi Guys,
&nbsp;
I would like to suggest that those of us who love this game start a group either on the forums or offline that puts together a bunch of information for new players that helps them get into the game quickly.
&nbsp;
The more people we can convince to play this game the more reasons Matrix has to keep making improvements.
I intend to post an EiA campaign notice at all the local Gamer Stores and the local wargame club with details on how they can buy the new EiANW.
&nbsp;
I agree that some work needs to be done, but now that I have the game I am willing to put in the time to create user driven information that helps new players get into it and to capture the spirit I am sure all EiA devotees have.
&nbsp;
We could look at creating a Wiki for EiANW that way we can all author the files and we can build a solid body of knowledge.
&nbsp;
Thoughts?

[Thresh]

Are you reading the pdf manual or the help doc that pops up in game?

Todd

[Cossaky]

Obviously EiA still has a long way to go until it's as user intuitive as World of Warcraft.  Instead of declaring the game DOA, why don't we rise to the challenge as a community and help make the game better?  I've played the EiA board game for years but even I'm frustrated with many of the UI functions. 

Reading the manual goes a long way towards clearing things up, but that only gets you to where you can play EiA and cope with some of its shortfalls.  A lot of excellent suggestions have already been made in the last few days.  Let's keep them coming.

A top priority for me is the message log. Unless I scroll to read through the entire message log, I can miss important pieces of news like DoWs or Napoleon being killed during a field battle. I'd love something that would relieve the sense of tunnel vision in this game and clue me in to more significant events and battles. Someone else made the comment that one of the things they loved about the board game was watching the nail-biter battles unfold between other powers. I wholeheartedly agree.

Cossaky

[Artmiser]

so whats a factor. Have not found that yet.

I hate to say this the only people that are "getting this" are people who played the board game. This was not a cheap game, a little extra work on the UI would have been nice. Also the manual should have been written by someone who did not play the boardgame, the writer of the manual assumed to many things. They needed to write the manual to play the computer game, not write the manual for people who played the board game.

And you know what they say about assume.

Art

[Cossaky]

Factors are just an arbitrary term used to represent a single 'unit' of troops (~2,000 men).&nbsp; Each nation's corps structure is different and contains different maximum amounts of factors.
&nbsp;
While the average Austrian Corps has 15 Infantry factors and 1 Cavalry Factor the average Russian Corps has only 10 Infantry factors.

[chuckj118]

I have to agree that the game is not all that user friendly to the new comer. But the actual board game isn't either. I learned the board game 15+ years ago by going to a gaming club meeting and watching six guys play the game. After that first night I knew all I needed to get into the next game they started. I suppose being a History Buff helped.

I guess a wiki or something like that would fulfill this role for the computer game. I would be glad to contribute some time to explaining some of the arcane historical rules, etc.