Can you ask a country to surrender

[jony663]

I am playing Spain and in 1805 Turkey declare war on Spain but never attacked. Over the next 18 months I landed and conquered Rhodes, Syria, Palestine and Egypt. Now I have landed and am laying seige to Constantanople (there are 25 factors there). Would setting the victory level to conditional or informal help. They are bankrupt and can not pay for maintance.

Any ideas.
Jon

[DCWhitworth]

I presume you are playing the AI. There is no way of asking someone to surrender 'in game', it is their choice. If it was a player you could talk to them and perhaps convince them but you can't *make* them.

Setting the surrender terms to conditional will help but then you won't get such good terms.

One reason he might not have surrendered to you previously - is he at war with anyone else ? You cannot surrender to a nation that does not have troops in your home country unless you surrender to *all* nations you are at war with.

[jony663]

Turkey is also at war with Great Britian. If I change it to conditional will they be able to surrender even though GB does not have troops on their home country.
 
I see a problem with the logic of this rule. I can beat up Turkey and get losts of PP and they can do nothing about it till I enter Turkey proper.
 
Until this turn I was only in their conquered territories. Need to see if it changes now I am in the home territory.
 
Thank you
Jon

[Grognot]

If memory serves, you should be able to offer them an informal peace (separate from checking the box that indicates whether you'll accept an offered informal peace).  It doesn't let you select -any- peace terms, but on the other hand you'd also be able to smack them down again even within the next 18 months if need be.

I suspect that one reason for the prohibition is to prevent certain arguably abusive tactics (even if they're probably edge cases...).

Example --
Turkey is on the offensive in Austria, but not doing particularly well.  There are no Austrian troops on Turkish soil, because he's still busy smacking down annoying feudal corps starving in Austrian provincial capitals, and because he needs to guard against France and even Prussia.  Russia has massed troops in Odessa.  It's the diplomatic phase.  Russia is not yet at war with Turkey, but it's expected to happen immediately.

Well, it would otherwise be legal for Turkey to conditional-surrender to Austria with the purpose of ceding Besserabia, and thus blocking the overland route (unless Russia DoWs Austria next turn, or DoWs them both, or Austria treacherously grants access to Russia.  And if Russia and Austria had lately reached a formal peace and Russia -couldn't- DoW Austria, well...). 

From Austria's POV... well, they might want more or different Turkish territory, but they probably also don't want to see Russia gaining more PP through smacking Turkish feudals, and it gets the Turkish feudals out of Austrian territory for at least 18 months.

The above might not seem abusive or irrational, other than a blocking move perhaps being considered a provocation from a Russian perspective...  But what if it's Jan. 1805, there's no Austrian-Turkish pre-game DoW, Turkey set up near Egypt, and Russia set up near Turkey?  It would otherwise be legal for Turkey to talk with Austria, and arrange for an instant "war" in which Austria DoWs Turkey, and receives an immediate conditional-surrender with Besserabia attached.

This rule, however, would mean that since the peace step occurs after all war declarations and Turkey would be at war with -both- Russia and Austria, Turkey can't sue only one for peace unless that one's invasion has actually started.

[PBI]

So you're saying that there is no way to ask for a peace with the AI?

[zaquex]

You can ask for a white or if you like informal peace, which means a peace without any conditions or enforced peace period.

There is only one other way to ask for peace and that is to sue wich seems like a bad idea in this situation.

[PBI]

So the answer is yes.  That sucks

[NeverMan]

Well, it only sucks because the AI currently sucks.

In a 7 player game, what would be the point in asking a player to surrender? If they wanted to surrender, they would just sue for peace. If they wanted to just surrender to you, they would make arrangements for you to get a corp inside their country so they could sue you for peace.

[pzgndr]

I was playing Prussia yesterday and Great Britain and Turkey DOWed against me at different points. Why?? I wish the AI would provide at least some reason for going to war. But that's another matter... Regardless, I didn't want to be at war and requested informal peace. In both cases it took a couple of attempts but the AI did settle for informal peace. I was then able to re-establish an alliance with Great Britain as if nothing had happened. Whatever.

Edit. I could NOT re-restablish the alliance with GB, due to the 12-month restriction after the earlier alliance was broken. But peace was restored.

[PBI]

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Well, it only sucks because the AI currently sucks.

In a 7 player game, what would be the point in asking a player to surrender? If they wanted to surrender, they would just sue for peace. If they wanted to just surrender to you, they would make arrangements for you to get a corp inside their country so they could sue you for peace.

First, I wasn't talking about a multiplayer game, but if I was, the point in asking a player in a multi game to surrender is obvious - so you can get them to surrender when you want them to instead of waiting them out I've played many games over the years and you'd be surprised at the results I've gotten when I've asked if someone wanted to enter negotiations (the EiA equivalent of a conditional peace).

Other games have interactive peace negotiation modes, there's really no reason why EiA shouldn't have one as well.

[NeverMan]

ORIGINAL: PBI

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

Well, it only sucks because the AI currently sucks.

In a 7 player game, what would be the point in asking a player to surrender? If they wanted to surrender, they would just sue for peace. If they wanted to just surrender to you, they would make arrangements for you to get a corp inside their country so they could sue you for peace.

First, I wasn't talking about a multiplayer game, but if I was, the point in asking a player in a multi game to surrender is obvious - so you can get them to surrender when you want them to instead of waiting them out I've played many games over the years and you'd be surprised at the results I've gotten when I've asked if someone wanted to enter negotiations (the EiA equivalent of a conditional peace).

Other games have interactive peace negotiation modes, there's really no reason why EiA shouldn't have one as well.

Yes, it was pretty obvious that you were referring to an AI game, that's why I said "Well, its only because the AI currently sucks." All the other stuff I posted was just an elaboration as to why this was not included in the game (the ORIGINAL EiA, since it was a boardgame and didn't have an AI). You could always "ask" a person to surrender (which was usually panned out in the Dip Phase), but it wasn't really "official" until the opponent sued for peace.

You'd be surprised how many games I have played where opponents should have been suing for peace but refused to, much like your AI.