Some thoughts on Manpower

[GaryChildress]

I came back for a while to work on an upgrade of the DCCP terrain mod I made, using the new update.

I plan on introducing Manpower to the mix. I haven't worked out a good formula for the numbers for manpower yet, however, my thought is to give all subformations a value of 1 x manpower in order to be built. The only exception would be Staff. I read on the net that the breakdown for tooth vs. tail in most military units is 1:3 or 1:4 and climbs higher as you work up the echelons. In order to simulate this, it seems like staff should have maybe 5 or more manpower per staff subformation. This would introduce an extra tactic for bombers to target HQ units in order to burn through the enemy's manpower.

As I see it, the best way to set up Manpower is maybe to start off with a big number that gets whittled down over time, followed by small incremental increases. You can ramp up production pretty fast at first, but the longer you play through a game, the lower your Manpower will dip over time until you're receiving considerably less manpower per turn than what you use in subformation production.

One question I have is, since I'm tying Manpower to Vcitory Points (which are tied to the number of cities the player controls), is there a way to have expected manpower production show up in the Manpower window at the top of the screen just like Raw and Oil. Or is there no way to do that with Manpower that isn't generated by a standard production method?

[ernieschwitz]

Your logic is pretty fine. It is how I would go about it too. A large portion to begin with, and smaller additions as time went. I think it can be made so that there is a way to make more manpower a turn. The cost of it could be less production for that regime, something you can do for a people, so you would need to only have one regime for each people, or do something fancy before production happened on each turn, and track it in a stringlist.

I am unsure you need to make staff more manpower. By that logic it should also be harder to kill, since there are more of them. However, you can do it if you want. You could, if you do it, make the staff be able to command less troops, and thus force the player to build more of them, and use more.

There is as far as I know no way to have the number showing how much is gained each turn, show up in the window you want. You can make a Manpower report, each turn, for each regime, detailing how much they gained. The only way to have it show is if it is produced. You could of course make a LocType, call it Barracks, and make it produce the manpower you are giving, by giving it a people, called manpower (for instance), and then have that LocType only be able to produce Manpower. The amount it produced could be changed using coding.

As I once said, and have been told, almost nothing is not doable in ATG. If you know how to manipulate it, and take some caveats.

[GaryChildress]

I suppose I could make "Manpower" producible in cities just like political points and supplies. Maybe give it a relatively large production point requirement. It could count as sending troops through basic training or something. then it would show manpower being produced per turn in the right place, maybe?

Come to think of it, I could have two manpower pools. One for troops with basic training and one for troops with elite training just for paratroopers and elite rifle units. I could require X amount of production points for basic training and then for elite training, require manpower from the basic training pool to create elite units. I wonder how well the AI would handle it, though.

Just random thoughts on some alternatives.

[ernieschwitz]

At first blush it sounds like a good idea...

But then you begin using a little logic, and math, and you'll discover that all you've done is add an extra production cost. Nothing more nothing less. I do like the idea of specialized manpower and ordinary manpower though. Tweber did something like that in his scenario World at War, the version for ATG. It comes bundled with ATG.

[GaryChildress]

At first blush it sounds like a good idea...

But then you begin using a little logic, and math, and you'll discover that all you've done is add an extra production cost. Nothing more nothing less. I do like the idea of specialized manpower and ordinary manpower though. Tweber did something like that in his scenario World at War, the version for ATG. It comes bundled with ATG.

True. All this might just be adding more clicks to the game that aren't needed. Even having two types of manpower would just be adding extra production cost, which I suppose could simply be added to buying an elite subformation straight out of production--cutting out the middle step.

[GaryChildress]

You can always tell those of us who've gotten burnt out on wargames. Features turn into extra effort to create very little game-play improvement.

[ernieschwitz]

At first blush it sounds like a good idea...

But then you begin using a little logic, and math, and you'll discover that all you've done is add an extra production cost. Nothing more nothing less. I do like the idea of specialized manpower and ordinary manpower though. Tweber did something like that in his scenario World at War, the version for ATG. It comes bundled with ATG.

True. All this might just be adding more clicks to the game that aren't needed. Even having two types of manpower would just be adding extra production cost, which I suppose could simply be added to buying an elite subformation straight out of production--cutting out the middle step.

Exactly what I meant.

[GaryChildress]

At first blush it sounds like a good idea...

But then you begin using a little logic, and math, and you'll discover that all you've done is add an extra production cost. Nothing more nothing less. I do like the idea of specialized manpower and ordinary manpower though. Tweber did something like that in his scenario World at War, the version for ATG. It comes bundled with ATG.

True. All this might just be adding more clicks to the game that aren't needed. Even having two types of manpower would just be adding extra production cost, which I suppose could simply be added to buying an elite subformation straight out of production--cutting out the middle step.

Exactly what I meant.

Thinking about it more, I think it's probably best not to include Manpower as a feature. I should probably update the DCCP mod to work with the new update and pretty much leave it at that. I have a bad habit of getting carried away and end up getting to the point where I can't finish everything on my plate.

[lion_of_judah]

I'm very happy Gary made this manpower event. I use it now in all my scenario's.

[GaryChildress]

I'm very happy Gary made this manpower event. I use it now in all my scenario's.

Awesome! I'm happy to hear I was able to contribute something to the modding community (other than subformation graphics).

[ernieschwitz]

Don't sell yourself short.

Those SFT pictures are great, and any amount of code or ideas you present can get picked up. My ideas are usually too complex, but can be simplified, by others.

Also I don't password protect my code, so anyone can access it, and do what they want with it. Just need the skill to read it, I think. My SFT pictures are not as great though.