WaW Revised Version R Available

[explorer2]

Another consequence of permanent summer GE cities would be on supply - they wouldn't use as much supply in winter.
A smart GE player it seems would load almost all of his units in these cities. They would be very strong (no readiness hit) and he would typically use about 1/3 as much supply overall ( he couldn't put ALL his units in these cities) & if they're mobile, IF some weird unexpected invasion came to a true winter city he didn't have many units in, the mobile units garrisoned in summer cities could quickly go over in full strength and crush the invasion.

Something to think about. [:)]

[HamburgerHill]

I have suggested to Appren adopting a house rule that would limit the West to only being able to bomb one axis controlled city affected by winter a turn. It is an acceptable alturnative for me. For me it would be too much of a sacrifice to call off all my bombing raids in the winter as the west needs to keep some pressure on the Germans.

[explorer2]

My best solution at the moment for future versions is to give UK winter like the rest of Western Europe. That would even the odds.
That would also cause a VERY difficult supply situation for UK, perhaps creating a major game imbalance, so I will consider giving them winter, but a supply bonus somehow. That's my best thought at the moment.

And don't forget that AA is pretty effective and will work no matter what its readiness is, and level bombers or fighters rarely kill AA (Dive bombers will though).
If you don't have AA in all your GE cities, that's not because of a problem with winter.

[HamburgerHill]

Yea, I had considered that as well. I'm Not sure if that would be the right move or not. It would be a major change for the brits considering the huge amounts of supply needed just by there navy alone. It is true also that the AA will only be mildly affected by the rediness penalty. The only real problem is the intercept range of german fighters.
 In my last game as Germans I ended up building several small formations consisting of 5 fighters in each to cover my production cities instead of 3 or 4 larger formations. This way i would have at least some coverage in most cities in case of bombing during winter months when my fighters could only cover the city they were stationed in.
 I think the game is quit playable the way it is, but would recommend some players may want to consider adopting some house rules for level bombing in the West during winter months. IMHO
 
Thanx for all the work you do Explorer.[:)] 

[british exil]

@Appren
Regarding GE/SU border garrison requirement:
It absolutely bites big time if GE doesn't keep it up. But IMHO it adds a significant game element to have it a variable amount. It gives SU something to hope for by "bull-rushing" the border, but it's a gamble for SU, because if they try that strategy and it doesn't work, GE can just really tear them up.
I don't think it's too much to ask the GE player to pay attention a lot to their numbers - they're clearly reported each turn. I'll try to put another warning or 2, but like I said previously, AT message screen has no ability for large fonts, bold, etc.... so it's hard to make a message stand out.

There is still the free hand card that gives you the information how many PP you have on the border.this card can be played for free, as often as you want. Move units around the border hexes use the card to check your status. Move a unit or two use the card again. Works great, just remember to have a few big units near the border to keep the figures stable.

[Appren]

True, that card is very useful, same with the new French one.

After playing several games (to 1941/42 at least) against 3 different players, as both axis and allies, I'll have to say that the range of level bombers are too high. Tech 1 level bombers from the UK should not be able to bomb northern Italy, Vienna and Munich in my opinion. I'd suggest something like this. Level 1 bombers = 10 range, level 2 = 15, and level 3 = 20. Needing to research higher levels of bombers for deep strikes makes sense I'd say.

[Appren]

Hmm, can you check the supply use for Germany, Explorer? The use went up in the winter (40/41) as expected, but so far (June 41) it has not gone down again when winter was over. Current "OutRq" from OKW is a bit over 37k, and 90% of my factories are building supplies (and still failling short of delivering the full request), and this was with the Italian fleet at sea for the turn. In comparison, the OutRq in nov 40 was 11k with the (somewhat smaller at that point) Italian fleet docked. The Japanese can not make enough supplies in June 41 either, with 9 of 10 factories building supplies, and getting 9k from the US this turn.

[HamburgerHill]

ORIGINAL: Appren

True, that card is very useful, same with the new French one.

After playing several games (to 1941/42 at least) against 3 different players, as both axis and allies, I'll have to say that the range of level bombers are too high. Tech 1 level bombers from the UK should not be able to bomb northern Italy, Vienna and Munich in my opinion. I'd suggest something like this. Level 1 bombers = 10 range, level 2 = 15, and level 3 = 20. Needing to research higher levels of bombers for deep strikes makes sense I'd say.

IMHO... If the range of level bombers were to be adjusted then I think you would have to split the bomber research tree into 2 lines for sure. The brits already have to research fighter 3 to get long range fighters.
Northern Italy may be a stretch for british bombers but most of Germany was well in range of British bombers at the start of the war and the brits in fact Bombed Berlin many dozens of times during 1940 using large formations of 80 to a 100 bombers mostly sometimes even larger formations. I believe the Wellington IC was the primary bomber used by the brits in those raids.

In order to maintain historical accuracy British bombers would have to start with the ability to bomb Berlin from London. The distance from London to Berlin is 935 km and the Wellingtin IC which the brits had produced something like 2600 aircraft leading up to and in 1940 had a combat range of 1900 - 2500 km's (Depending on size of bomb load)

[Appren]

Yes, I agree. If you change bomber ranges, it makes sense to split the research tree.

Holding off on more turns until I get a response on the supply issue (moving tomorrow as well, so no rush :p )

[Appren]

I checked some parts of the supply use again. I reloaded a savegame from Nov 40, and the increase in supply use to the current state in August 41 is quite staggering. For instance, I have several units of 1 x Flak Immobile I, which in November used 8 supply each, while in August they use 22. A recon unit in France went up from 66 to 99, and a fort in Kiel went up from 28 to 82!

I do not understand this.


Edit: In August 29, 1941, it seems supply levels are finally going back to normal, at least when checking the before mentioned units. Just in time for the next winter!

[explorer2]

Sorry for the long absence guys, I've been swamped at work and real life.
Regarding bomber range: historically they could indeed, as HamburgerHill points out reach Berlin, with room to spare, from the war's start, as well as Vienna. Since they did raids on Budapest and Koenigsburg as well, they should have been able to hit Venice and Milan, though I"m not aware that historically they did.

OK, just did some research and discovered that bombers based in England did indeed hit targets throughout northern Italy. Also bombers hit Italy from N. Africa.

Re supply irregularities: I'm pretty confident that this is caused by winter, though of course without seeing the game I cannot be sure.
When a unit's supply dips below 70% (which it is likely to do if the winter has a readiness loss of 30% or greater) the amount of supply needed to restore it to full is MORE than just the balance. When the supply dips below 50%, the supply needed to restore it is extremely high. That's an AT thing, and there's nothing I can do about that.

One thing that REALLY hits a lot of players hard is having ships in port during winter. They take the largest amount of supply, by far per turn, and since they request enough supply to stay at sea for several turns, just having one ship in port during winter can cause an enormous increase in the amount of supply used, ESPECIALLY if it is during winter. My suspicion is that's what's going on in JA. And remember those JA carriers have enormous amounts of air on them also. One other thing is if you have Landing Craft Long Range, they have to be able to keep supply for many turns (to keep the units in them in supply) so they can eat up a fair amount if they're not already at full supply as well.

If you don't think this explains it, send me some game files with passwords and I'll have a look.

[HamburgerHill]

Omsk has stopped producing Siberian units and is now just producing standard Russian unit.
 
I'm not sure when it started. It was producing them and I think maybe when the Germans attacked it stopped. Or maybe when 1941 started.[&:]

[Appren]

By the way, the Chinese Warlords HQ, could you perhaps make a railroad there? (Or just have Soviet supply end up at another HQ) As it is now, if the kind Soviets give supplies to China they all end up useless in the Warlords HQ, with no way to reach the front. Building a road (a gigantic task for the Chinese as that would be) wont help.

Also, could it be possible to make the Chinese cities indestructible, and then remove the AA guns? I don't know if its even possible game technically, but it could be a way to remove the very advanced AA guns and still not let the Japanese player reduce the Chinese production to dust in 2 turns.

[sapper32]

Hi all im playing as Allies against the AI its early 1940 now and the AI Germans still havent taken Warsaw and dont ever look like they will i belive it says the version is AI capable in other versions the AI has taken Warsaw in late 1939 seems like odd AI behavior.

Ian

[Appren]

ORIGINAL: sapper32

Hi all im playing as Allies against the AI its early 1940 now and the AI Germans still havent taken Warsaw and dont ever look like they will i belive it says the version is AI capable in other versions the AI has taken Warsaw in late 1939 seems like odd AI behavior.

Ian

"AI capable" for this scenario really should be read as "somewhat playable as German vs AI"

[explorer2]

HamburgerHill: I'll look into it.
Appren: Chinese Aid: already completed that change for version S, though not via a new RR.
........... Chinese Cities Indestructible: There is a way to make this happen sort of kind of. What don't you like about the advanced AA there, other than of course it's totally unhistorical? It's also unhistorical that Japanese bombed these cities.

Most of the reason is as I explained in separate post somewhere, the Chinese (and Pacific) map scales are entirely different from European map scale. To make this more accurate, we would have to have an entirely separate set of units with different movement allowances. This is why so many games just have a European theatre or Asian theatre - the map scales are so vastly different.

So in putting in the strong AA, that gives the JA the option of still pursuing a very unhistorical strategy, but it will make it quite difficult.
What are the other (besides historical) disadvantages?

Sapper32: That's the first report I've had of GE AI not taking Warsaw, but as Appren says, GE AI is not "smart" (I've just tried to make it less stupid).
I'll add it to my list, but it won't be high on the list at the moment.

Thanks for the input guys! [8D]

[explorer2]

ORIGINAL: HamburgerHill

Omsk has stopped producing Siberian units and is now just producing standard Russian unit.

I'm not sure when it started. It was producing them and I think maybe when the Germans attacked it stopped. Or maybe when 1941 started.[&:]

Very sorry about that HamburgerHill.
I found the problem. It will be fixed for version S, but nothing I can do about it in current versions.
It begins producing as Russian instead of Siberian when GE starts war with SU, whenever that is. My oversight in coding.

[HamburgerHill]

Hey no prob explorer. Thanx for checking it out. Looking forward to version S [&o]

[DRommels]

hey, i am playing vers R now against AI++, and me on axis side.

juli 1940; Italy comes to war but where is the ital fleet??????
There is no main fleet in homeland Italy or elswhere.

[Appren]

Italians have a fleet. It is, however, very weak at the start, and need to stay docked up for a few turns before they can fight.