EF III Question for Berto / Design Team

[XLVIIIPzKorp]

I've been a CS player since Talonsoft first produced this gem. As of late I have also been dabbling in JT's Panzer Battles. Also liking it so far. One of the stand out routines (at least I think) in the PB system is the system controlled random air attacks / interdiction that occur during the opponents movement.

Way back in the day when TS was looking for player input on how air should be handled in their upcoming West Front title this type of system controlled air routine was suggested and discussed on the TS boards though sadly never implemented.

My question is whether or not we could see something similar in the upcoming redo of EF and ultimately WF. For one, it gives mobile anti-aircraft units a very urgent and realistic reason to be used as intended. Not to mention how very satisfying it is to see on map reports of unknown opposing columns being shot up in the rear area as they try to approach the front. In one game I played I saw the report of 10 guns destroyed by the Luftwaffe. I only found out later that the guns were 120mm mortars, not an inconsiderable loss for my Soviet opponent. Similarly of course, just as frustrating to have your own precious reserves getting busted up as they race to a trouble spot. It just has a very nice feel to it, though I imagine could become quite a concern for the Wehrmacht in late war Western scenarios.

[Jason Petho]

Certainly something logical, but not sure which game it will be implemented. East Front III or West Front II for sure.

We're passed the new features phase for Vietnam.

[XLVIIIPzKorp]

Thanks Jason, very cool. Good to know. Think it's a very worthy feature.

[Crossroads]

Panzer Battles, with its roots in the Panzer Campaigns, with their longer turn durations (ie the time frame presented per one turn) are more abstract in this manner. In many grand tactical and operational games one indeed allocates some of his air assets to interdiction role, or to a bombing role for instance. I own Pz Battles Normandy and and Pz Campaigns Middle East (ha!), and quite like them too.

I have been toying with an idea where, in CS system, it would be possible to allocate available air assets to "Strike by Map". Similarly as with In-direct fire by Map, the aircrafts would strike something in the area, and would drift a few hexes likely (with blue-on-blue an issue if in vicinity but out of LOS), when no direct LOS to direct as what exactly should the strike. That would be a nice way to have your fighters/bombers approach an area at a given time and to do some damage there. So for instance you'd target them to a key road intersection at enemy rear, and send them to do any damage they can find, in a way.

Again, just my thoughts on this. And as Jason said, something for the coming EF / WF titles to be discussed.

[Okayrun3254]

I too have both Panzer Campaigns and Panzer Battles, and like both of them. They are both on what I would consider my A list of computer games. I actually was looking for a unit info feature one time and realized it was in the other game, HaHa.

[carll11]

I have gotten heavily into Panzer Campaigns over the last 3 years, as I burned out on the old version of CSME and awaiting the Vietnam module...

One remark on Air strike by map; it makes for example the Normandy Campaign virtually unplayable.....moving the germans in daylight, anywhere on the map, is a chore because each air strike stops all movement of the unit, which means you have to move it again, and then it gets stopped again by another air strike,and then...yes you have to start its movement again, it took me literally 20 minutes to move 1, 8 unit battalion.....I gave up.( note- I am not arguing that Allied air power/interdiction wasn't fierce, but there has to be a balance, game play wise).

Just a word of caution if this is a feature to be added, and there is to be a one sided air power dominance...



Oh and my wish for the rework of East/West Front- a hot key for the 'freeze' unit command while in scenario editing.

[Jason Petho]

That's excellent feedback, carll11.

Thank you

[XLVIIIPzKorp]

I would like to note that I'm not suggesting a player controlled Airstrike by Map. I am suggesting a system controlled air interdiction that could be triggered only within a specific parameter set.

Target units would be restricted to: loaded transport, or any unit using road movement. Other units considered to be moving in a more tactical mode would never be targets for interdiction as they would not be broadcasting their presence by columns or road movement. The level of interdiction in a scenario could be defined in scenario file itself. For example I would not expect much Allied interdiction in early Bulge scenarios but would expect a very active Allied air presence in Normandy scenarios.

Just wanted to clarify what exactly I was referring to. And yes I imagine it could be a big pain for the Western Axis in '44 but then again it was. Would also force a side to move slowly/stealthily if wanting to avoid. A trade-off of mobility to avoid air interdiction. Just my thoughts.

[Crossroads]

WIth it being early days for East Front III still, I've done some experimenting with the early war scenarios, Barbarossa in particular. Luftwaffe was quite efficient during the first year of war in the east, hammering away at enemy logicistics, HQs, and hitting their armor before it had a chance to even deploy in to the battle.

Also, the German efficiency in communications played a key role, as they always seemed to be far more aware as what went on in the battle field and around it.

Now, how to depict that in scenario design? One answer, that's what I've found out so far anyway, is the availability of recce aircraft for the side you want to be better aware of the battle. Here, once you add a few recce airplane for Germans, and with plenty of airstrike at your disposal, you can actually now hit the Soviets hard in their rear areas. HQs, artillery parks, what ever you see as key to denying Soviets, you can now pound them hard. Of course, at the same time, the German side has a very good overall view of what goes on.

Soviet player on the other hand is really fighting the fog of war, not seeing where the Germans are despite them seeing him. As we know, the German equipment was not that great, and perhaps the old JTCS East Front scenarios depict that, in that is really hard to succeed in some of the battles that historically were won decisively. Now, adding something as simple as a few recon elements, perhaps shortening the visibility a bit, and having the airstrikes (and artillery) available you can now succeed where it was not previously possible.

I guess my point is that even without a change to code there will be quite a difference how scenarios in East Front III will play. And towards historical results, even.