Impression

[sapper_astro]

Beeblebrox: I disagree. I have been to a LOT of fora besides this one, and the fact that CC was coming back was a big thing for many gamers out there. This includes all types, even those I would have thought graphics were everything to. Even these types spoke lovingly of their experiences way back when.
 
And then, poof. 'Wat?! Its only CC3 rerelease!?!?! OMG!!!1!!'
 
Thats when it went downhill.
 
If you guys had released, say, a complete France 1940 campaign, with the regular CC3 campaign included, you could have cleaned up (France 1940 is just a filler idea, put whatever else in that makes sense).
 
I am not saying you guys didn't do a good job. I am saying that this resurgence made quite a bit of underground news across the web, and then a collective sigh before returning to their Flashy games again. A new campaign, including the old CC3 campaign (Even if this took another 6 months) would have been very sweet....
 
As for now, its an ok buy for those wishing to try it out. If you loved CC3's multiplayer, or want to play a CC game then go for it. I personally, due to both owning CC3, having tonnes of mods included on my install and knowing how to work it in XP have little need to buy it. I don't really have time for Multiplayer these days.
 
When you have an entirely new campaign, then for sure I will be interested. But I will go against the trend here and say this; No 3D iteration of CC has so far worked, it just seems to make things more difficult to control. It isn't broken, it just needs something better than CC5 (half of a normandy campaign?[:-]).
 
Theres lots of campaigns out there to do, from various wars. Go for it.

[old man of the sea]

ORIGINAL: Beeblebrox
I could no more play Motor Smashup Madness Thing Type Game than drill a hole in my head, well unless I was out of my skull at the time, and I probably would regret it afterwards... [8D]

Out of your head to do either one......yes.

I'm not the only one who thought making CC in 3D was a good idea. Remeber, lots of people paid me to make it, I was more intersted in making Mall Tycoon to tell you the truth.

E

[Shaun Wallace]

And then, poof. 'Wat?! Its only CC3 rerelease!?!?! OMG!!!1!!'

 
As has been posted and noted by many on the forums the changes in AI are very noticeable and change gameplay. The WF mod comes with a complete mod and campaign and a lot of work went into the re-release. All mods and MP have been made far more accesible for all.
 
As I have said this is only and was only ever a stop-gap as will be the other re-releases so that we can release CC6 with some of the features I have laready listed:
 
5 on 5 MP Play
4 X or more larger maps
Pre-deploy fortifications
Scripting to allow for other Victory Conditions and in game options, set up via scenario editor
Complete AAR of any game
Civilians
Mount and dismount of units onto and off vehicles
Major AI improvments
Dig In / Fortification commands
A raft of new menu options in game
New unit types
 
You may not agree, but a lot of the community wanted CC re-releases and see where we are going in the future. CSO has been around for almost 10 years now and modding and all the rest is going amazingly strong. We want CC to grow and develop from where Atomic left off and that is our aim. We did the best we could with CC CoI (engine) while maintaining focus on CC6. CC: CoI is a significant improvment over CC3 and if it was not for all the mods being hosted for 10 years plus at CSO and more recently at other sites, do you think that CC3 and any mod would still be around at all? (Its because of CSO, CS Net, TH etc that CC and modding are still a major factor and this in itself without CC development costs money to keep online) At CSO alone we have 35326mgs (35GB) of files online. Thats 3837 seperate files that since we moved to the new scripted site have been downloaded 1,528,928 times. This is a not insignificant number.
 
As you may know, I was involved with Eric (OMOS) with GI Combat and produced EYSA with Matrix while I was working for Matrix. I learned a lot from GIC and EYSA and have learned a huge amount from the military contracts that we have worked on and continue to work on.
 
Simtek and Matrix are aiming to bring CC back with a bang and are working hard to do just that. if you don't agree with that simply vote with your wallet We can only do our best at whatever we are doing!
 
Cheers - Sulla

 

[ReconPathFinder]

I own dozens of Matrix titles, but after spending 2 days with this, I am sorely disappointed. Its a shame you cannot be refunded on items that really do not meet your expectations. Ive always had very positive purchases here, but I will make sure I really research all new titles that are released and wait for independent reviews. Ive never had to do this in the past but if this is Matrix's new direction, then it appears I will have to. I think the "classics" may be an idea that was wished for, it really has missed the mark as just rehashing a product already freely available and putting a price on it. This is only my opinion, but Matrix should just stick with their original winning formula, this is by far my worst purchase here. My game registration list should show that I at least have followed Matrix long enough to know.


Regards.

[Erik Rutins]

jimrad1,

ORIGINAL: jimrad1
I own dozens of Matrix titles, but after spending 2 days with this, I am sorely disappointed.

I understand you're disappointed, but I didn't see any real info in your post regarding what disappointed you or what our "new direction" is. We will continue to both release brand new games and also do some updated and improved re-releases. As with this one, we'll provide full info on what has been updated and improved so that customers can make an educated decision. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss.

Regards,

- Erik

[billiard]

As a long time player of CCII through CCV, I've been anxiously awaiting COI since I first googled up the game after (yet another) return to the CC series and playing through both CCII and CCIII again. After going through each of those two probably every year, I long for more repeat playability, and COI seems to hold that promise. (CCIV and CCV suffer from the same disease, namely those "locked" teams AND those worse than useless command cars that you have to have, but wish you could ditch).

I truly loved CCII, with the ability to strategically reinforce certain operations over others and certain battles over others, depending on situation. I missed that layer in CCIII, but loved the ability to create my own campaigns. Unfortunately, I was (and still am) handicapped in the latter by my back-woods status (dial up only out here in the sticks), and downloading new maps takes forever. And probably 10% of the maps I did download were crap (the on screen visual topography in no way resembles the LOS the game engine actually uses). But, nonetheless, by shifting around the original CCIII maps and about as many again downloaded maps, I was able to put together some nice Russian and German alternate grand campaigns. Then I'd mess with the start and end periods, in order to have different equipment at either the beginning and/or end of the campaigns. My fave is to stop upgrades in 1943, in order to have the Tiger I as the top tank on the field - some serious medals and promotions for the Tiger gunners in those campaigns.

So thanks to dial-up, and only a moderate level of interest in "modding" per se, I thought COI would be perfect - new maps, maybe some new equipment and teams available. However, I'm holding off on a $50 purchase right now (I'm a luddite, and must have the actual box and disc - I've had to reload various games quite a few times in the past and don't trust having the game only on the computer hard drive itself) while I sort out the various comments on these forums. This seemed a good one to ask for a few answers regarding differences between COI and CCIII:

1. What, if any, are the new teams available to each side? This is primary in my mind, so a listing of (or link to) the new teams and their capabilities is a very important factor in my purchase decision.
2. Is the updgrade path for the Germans any different now? (in CCIII, I'd love it as the Russians, in that I could eventually upgrade every tank to, eventually, a JSII or III). But when you start out with medium tanks as the Germans, you lose the experience of those teams when you must retire them in order to get the heavy tanks. Also, you could upgrade SOME tank destroyer teams to the Jadgtiger, but specifically not the Elefant).
3. Is the only visual change the tank skins mod that was available as a download a few years back? I have that one plugged in and appreciate the improved look of the tanks (and the change in camo paint on the snow maps), but I didn't know if there are other visual improvements in COI.

As for the AI, I know that is improved, but that seems hard to quantify up front except to say that from what I've read on these forums the AI is much tougher now. Hopefully no "cheats" in the AI (Paradox EU series keeps getting mentioned here, and I hated all the cheats the AI used to make up for its less than stellar "I"). So I won't even ask after this topic; 1 and 2 above are greater factors up front.

So in summary, I am one of those who applaud Matrix for bringing new life into the CC series, but am a bit price sensitive at $50. At $20, you've sold me even without the above questions being answered, but I'm holding out from more information at $50. Note that I'm a firm capitalist, and if you can get $100 per game, more power to you but while I consider a $20 game suitable for an impulse buy, I'm much more selective at $50.

As an aside about future games, regarding 3D versus sprites - STAY WITH SPRITES! I'll still play AOEII AOC (again, a huge customized campaign that I'll still dust off and add to occassionally), but didn't spring for AOEIII and my copies of Empires DOTM and Empire Earth stay buried in my file cabinet drawer. Codename Panzers likewise is still in a drawer, after a series of mapmaking excercises. I'd rather have a clear, sharp, wide field top down view than fuzzy waving palm trees and a near field view that makes me feel like I've got blinders on. I can't figure out why 3D is considered such a must have, when the monitor is 2D!

BTW, Oleg needs to change his avatar - my wife was passing behind me and probably thinks I'm on some online dating website (or worse).

[Shaun Wallace]

Hia billiard,

As for the AI, I know that is improved, but that seems hard to quantify up front except to say that from what I've read on these forums the AI is much tougher now. Hopefully no "cheats" in the AI (Paradox EU series keeps getting mentioned here, and I hated all the cheats the AI used to make up for its less than stellar "I"). So I won't even ask after this topic; 1 and 2 above are greater factors up front.

So in summary, I am one of those who applaud Matrix for bringing new life into the CC series, but am a bit price sensitive at $50. At $20, you've sold me even without the above questions being answered, but I'm holding out from more information at $50. Note that I'm a firm capitalist, and if you can get $100 per game, more power to you but while I consider a $20 game suitable for an impulse buy, I'm much more selective at $50.

As an aside about future games, regarding 3D versus sprites - STAY WITH SPRITES! I'll still play AOEII AOC (again, a huge customized campaign that I'll still dust off and add to occassionally), but didn't spring for AOEIII and my copies of Empires DOTM and Empire Earth stay buried in my file cabinet drawer. Codename Panzers likewise is still in a drawer, after a series of mapmaking excercises. I'd rather have a clear, sharp, wide field top down view than fuzzy waving palm trees and a near field view that makes me feel like I've got blinders on. I can't figure out why 3D is considered such a must have, when the monitor is 2D!

You can get a good idea on what has changed by reading the forums, here and at CSO. If you have played CC, they are easy to spot Try out WF and maybe even Commonwealth Summer, man they are awesome! WF shipped with CoI.

If you send me a PM with your name and address, I will send you a dsik with the map packs on mate. We tend to forget the modem-impaired, but we have sent map packs and other stuff out in the past. Some of the guys on modems have in the past had sets of maps mailed out to them by other players or forum users who have faster connections. Let me know and I will get them in the mail!

Cheers

Sulla

[Corporal_Remains]

This thread has been great IMO. As developers and publishers are everywhere on this thread, I'll tell them this: get CC5 bug free and stable and I'll pay you 50 bucks no problem. And you'll get my money for CoI too, but it's mainly in the interest of fueling the future of CC as a whole. I don't buy games like I used to 10 years ago...It's tough to get anything good in a non virtual store now, for one, newer ones seldom seem as good as the old for my tastes. Obviously, there are exceptions, but for me as a customer, that's how I have been looking at it. Remember when you could go to Best Buy and find all kinds of good stuff wargame-wise? Alas, we contracted niche-itus! I don't know why, but it's easier for me to part with my money when I can hold the box in my hand prior to purchase. It should make no difference, but it does. So that's part of why I don't buy many games anymore, at least compared to my past purchasing trends. But the other reason is I perceive most new releases as crap. So, re release these classics! Hell yeah! Fuel the new CC machine!

Funny thing is, I'm not even sure I *want* CoI...I'm big time re-hooked on CCV, and all of the mods for it after a many year hiatus...might be tough to step back to CCIII...but as a collector I want it (like I still have CCI lol)and I really want V fixed, and for VI and VII to see fruition. I owe my renewed interest in the series to CoI...after SSI went down, and the Zone quit supporting CC, and buggy CCV looked like it would never be fixed, I walked away to pbem land and turned base wargaming(which I still like alot)....When I happened to be looking here at Matrix a few weeks ago about the upcoming Talonsoft CS re releases, I discovered CoI, and then found an entire community out there playing this series, still, and improving upon it! I'm so happy you diehards stuck with it, and wish I had. I wish I had never quit! "You get the power and the glory! Forever and ever and ever!" (This forum needs a lil J.C. Superstar, eh?)LOL

Nothing gets the heart pumping like a good HTH CC match can....well, I guess plenty of things can do that, but what I'm saying is CC as well as being intellectually stimulating, is pretty G. damned exciting too! It's like playing my old Squad Leader game w/o the fuss and muss, the same tension and excitment...minus my beer spilled map boards! LOL And no strings and rulers for LOS!

I consider my self a supporter as opposed to a fanboy...No fanaticism here, just somebody who knows what he likes and is willing to pay for it when he sees it. You guys(Simtek/CSO, Matrix, ) are fighting the good fight IMHO, thanks! (and please do make some money while you are at it, how the hell can that be bad? [8D] )

[warishere]

As an aside about future games, regarding 3D versus sprites - STAY WITH SPRITES!

Although 3D is nice, I do agree with this. For a game like this you need sprites. However, I don`t see anything wrong with 3D maps and 2D sprites. And giving players the option to adjust the camera angle would be a nice addition to CC6.

[LitFuel]

Jimrad1,
 
Dozens?..anyways, I just don't have much sympathy for you, there was plenty of info on the forums before release of what this game re-release and series was all about not to mention at CSO and other CC sites and on the web, screenshots, data, etc.. People just don't want to read and have to do any research anymore, and that's just beign lazy..is that Matrix's fault? No. Take some responsability for your own actions, that would be novel for the world we live in now.
 
 

[Shaun Wallace]

  Although 3D is nice, I do agree with this. For a game like this you need sprites. However, I don`t see anything wrong with 3D maps and 2D sprites. And giving players the option to adjust the camera angle would be a nice addition to CC6.

 
We have had many discussions on this subject and what we can say is that the future of CC is top down We looked at other options, what other games had done and really for control and other reasons it has to be top down (maybe a AoE type view as well) but staying with top down as main view. We may have to move the graphic engine forward for various reasons, 3D is much easier to mod, to generate graphics for and for versatility, but whatever it has to feel like classic CC. We did a poll on CSO and this came through loud and clear!
 
Sulla

[Prince of Eckmühl]

ORIGINAL: Shaun Wallace

WF shipped with CoI

Well, I certainly haven't found it. [&:]

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

[ReconPathFinder]

ORIGINAL: LitFuel

Jimrad1,

Dozens?..anyways, I just don't have much sympathy for you, there was plenty of info on the forums before release of what this game re-release and series was all about not to mention at CSO and other CC sites and on the web, screenshots, data, etc.. People just don't want to read and have to do any research anymore, and that's just beign lazy..is that Matrix's fault? No. Take some responsability for your own actions, that would be novel for the world we live in now.

Your comment might have some merit, but your posting habits are very telling of your habitual attitude. What is Beign by the way? and responsability? If your going to be a sarcastic know it all, at least learn to spell.

Jim

[Shaun Wallace]

Well, I certainly haven't found it.

PoE (aka ivanmoe)

Hia Mate, my Bad, what I meant was its avialable from the interface of CoI.

See screens attached:

Use CSO Link or this one below:
http://www.closecombat.org/CSO/index.ph ... load&sid=1

Cheers

Sulla

[Shaun Wallace]

And CSO Screen:

WF Download:
http://www.closecombat.org/CSO/index.ph ... etit&lid=8

Sulla

[KG_Absolute]

Hmmm, Kameleonic, since you have not responded to all the posts, I say you are a defeatist. This is an update of a great game. The graphics are changed, the team data has been changed, built-in mod switch, direct links to downloads, direct links to Battle HQ/Close Combat HQ online, even the AI seems to be a little smarter (or maybe I am just old). I liked it so much I purchased four copies too! You may want to consider and purchase a copy.

[KG Erwin]

OK, I'm gonna chime in restate something I expressed in my own "Impressions" thread: I bought the game to show support for continued development of the series, and to express the hope to ultimately see Close Combat: the Pacific War, with emphasis on a USMC campaign. There -- my personal agenda is now spelled out.

[billiard]

PM completed, and I am impressed with Sulla's promise of maps (just thought of this - Sulla is best known for slaughtering a few thousand prisoners in the Roman Forum; hopefully not a secret wish for us plebians using this forum!). However, in reading these forums religiously for the last two weeks, I still can't find a COMPLETE list of new teams and outlines of their capabilities. Any idea on the German armor upgrade path? Also, when you "temporarily" retire a team, and requisition it back later, does the team still lose all its experience and medals? Last is not a deal breaker, just a long time frustration with CC in the past. Yes, I'm sure I'll hear that if I was methodical enough to read every line of every post ever made on any of these forums I'd know the answers to these questions and more, but I'd sure appreciate a quick primer!

[KWP]

Unlike CC5 you do not temporarily retire a team. You either rest, refit or permanently retire a team.

[sapper_astro]

Sulla, could you please outline, in full, the merits of CC:COI for non multiplayer people like myself. Everything you can think of. Even if its anally retentive.

Also, no need to tell me what you guys have done for the Franchise. You basically kept the beast resucitated for years over at CSO along with Ryans forums. Not to mention helping every nitwit who had a problem with 'No Format on stream'[:D]. I certainly won't question yours and others efforts.

If you guys can come up with new campaigns, add incremental improvements, and sell them here online, I think you can really make some great gaming experiences.