ATG Defense Blue or Red?

[junk2drive]

We currently have Blue front value and Red side value for defense on ATGs. I read this at BGG

I found SoS scenarios unplayable due to:
ATG's blue defense meant that for every Tiger's or panther's activation 2-3 ATG's were destroyed. After (correct) change from blue to red defense it is now just so much harder to destroy ATG via tank shot.

Anyone have an opinion on this in this PC version?

[IronFist00]

J2D, I saw the BGG post you are referencing. There is another post by the game's designer explaining why the change:

"Counter changes: After much player input, we changed the defensive values for AT guns from blue to red. This defensive value was also lowered, so that medium tanks still had roughly the same hit probability. But now these AT guns are more susceptible to MG fire. Players convinced us that this was more historically accurate and we agreed."

If we are voting, I would vote to change all the DVs to Red as per the third edition of the rules (the ones found in AtB Second Edition). Logically it does make sense the ATG shields would only protect against small arms fire, or red attack in CoH terms.

Now whether Eric can implement that (sounds pretty easy on the service), is another thing.

[PKH]

I have to agree with this, and I was actually thinking the same thing yesterday. Even with their shields, the crew could still be killed or knocked out from the shockwave and shrapnel of high explosive rounds.

On a somewhat related note, I've also read that using artillery against units in forests is actually more effective than in open fields, as the shells will explode in the treetops, making them more deadly. I'm not sure it that's something which would be suitable to add to the rules.

[IronFist00]

PKH, that is already modeled into the game, or at least the board game rules. I'm pretty sure it is also in the PC game.

The two ways are: All Mortar and artillery fire is against the Flank DV and if the firing unit does HE damage, it ignored the Heavy Woods +2 DV (light woods +1 DV is still applied because of the lesser density of trees that cause the catastrophic extra shrapnel).

Here's the explanation straight from the rules along with the Designer's notes on the reasoning:

12.2 Mortar and Artillery Air Bursts
Units with red colored flank defense ratings that are in a heavy woods hex do not receive the heavy woods’ +2DM when subjected to high explosive mortar or artillery fire.
Designer’s Note: Usually artillery exploded upon impact with the ground. But when artillery shells hit dense tree cover, the shells would burst in the air sending shell and tree fragments raining down upon units on the ground and in fox holes. This effect was devastating.

[PKH]

That's pretty cool. I skimmed through the rules on scridb.com a while ago, so that might be where I saw it in the first place.