Trippin' the Trappen

[olivier34]

Very interesting to see that the soviet can surprise the german player. Your opponent was abble to concentrate some tank corps and artillery. Do you recon all the front every turn or two turns ? This is something I had began to do in my last game but you lose planes doing so...
Losses are not bad for both sides. You have a large amount of tanks (I was down to 1200 at the same date) but more than 600 000 soviet soldiers...you will have to fight all your way to Stalingrad or maybe you plan to play an avoid card of some sort ?
Do you guys think to upgrade to the last version ?

[LiquidSky]

I was aware of the 5th Tank army around Voronezh, but the front had gone quiet after I took the city. I even noticed that it had moved off the line, and I assumed he was going to rail it to the south. The only activity was me trying to push his remaining bridgheads back over the Don....as well, where he hit me doesnt particularly lead anywhere dangerous so I didnt think to examine it.

I hardly ever recon anymore. Instead, I will launch a fighter strike on a city in the back. If it has planes, then great! I get to shoot some down. What usually happens, though, is Russian planes may come up and intercept, and I get to fight an air-air battle. If a lot of his planes come up, then I repeat at different cities until I run out of fighters. If none come up, then I bomb his lines without escort to get more bombers per stack of 100.

I agree, it will be a fight to Stalingrad. Even now, moving down into the Caucaus, we have a continuous line. I expect the same towards Stalingrad. It is why I want to clear the Don and use it as a defensive line. I can thin it out a bit and use the extra units to push forward.

He may have 600k troops, but thats because we started with Trappenjagd. He didnt lose the 200k+ at Kharkov like the russians did historically. What I find interesting is that if I hadnt caused 300k casualties so far, he would have around 1 million right now.

I debated using an avoid card, but they are very expensive. And because I took Millerowo, (I suspect), Berlin has ordered me to take Stalingrad already, although not for a while yet. I feel that it will become the focus of the game, and its outcome will determine the winner/loser of this match.

[wallas]

For those who care my Russian prestige is at 33, and I would have been 43 but I turned in 10 for a one time shot of 60. As a side not I would NOT do that again, and would advise any russian against playing that card.

[wallas]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky

What I find interesting is that if I hadnt caused 300k casualties so far, he would have around 1 million right now.

Yeah but 60% of my divisions/brigades are not combat effective and really need to be disbanded, but atm I need them to hold the line. I just disbanded all my motorized infantry divisions and brigades. Next up is all the tank brigades need to be disolved.

[LiquidSky]

Prestige:

Note that I changed the Russian starting Strategic Position from 5 to 4, so that every mission he gets is a defensive one. Losses of prestige will be due to me overrunning cities Stalin wanted him to hold. (Other then the starting Kharkov mission).

[Keunert]

what is the disbanding good for? doesn't this make you lose a lot of pp and experience? a newly created formation (even if it's made out of veterans) will start with low integrity or something?

how do you feel about your advance Liquid? do see any bigger possibilites of encirclements? or will the soviets be able to sustain the order?

[wallas]

ORIGINAL: Keunert

what is the disbanding good for? doesn't this make you lose a lot of pp and experience? a newly created formation (even if it's made out of veterans) will start with low integrity or something?

A unit at 30% integrity once filled back to full strength will also lose experience, so keeping ravaged cadres is pointless. Regarding PP being effected not sure what your talking about, and maybe you could elaborate ? I would rather take the remnants, and put them into the pool for replacements. How I see it anyways

[LiquidSky]

Grand Encirclement of an army (or more) is difficult/impossible in almost any game. This game does give you opportunities, but they are somewhat random as they flow out of the command and control rule. If a russian army gets hit by command and control, it cant move very far (if at all), and might get outflanked.

Without it, the Russian can do a controlled retreat.

I have, on occasion, cut off a division trying to escape, mostly because it could no longer get supply from its HQ, and so didnt get any AP's...

As well, if you hit a unit, and retreat it, then have enough AP's to attack it again, there is a very good chance that it will Break (surrender) on that second attack....or at least Panic (and lose extra steps).

As for breaking through a line, trouble is, you have to attrition the Russians to make the line so thin you can burst through it....and in my game, Wallas is retreating before letting that happen.

We are big on disbanding units to feed into the main army. Probably me more then him.

Integrity is just the percentage size of the unit vrs what it should be at full strength, so a low integrity unit is a unit that has lost a bunch of strength. There is something to be said for keeping your integrity up, as I am pretty sure units are breaking when they reach a certain low point. If you can keep their strength up, then they won't go "poof" in combat. Best source of replacement points is in your units, on the map...so rather then let those low integrity units die, giving up 8-12 strength points up because of a retreat result, disband them and let those points bolster up the units that are at 75%...to keep them fighting.

The only PP cost I can think of that may enter into this is if you decide to build new units. I believe Wallas is doing that by disbanding tank brigades and motorized brigades to build Tank Corps...which is sort of what they did historically anyways...

Not sure if the experience resets or not, but I suspect that the higher quality disband replacement points will help the replacement pool raise up in quality with the incoming trainee replacement points. So you may lose the 30 experience guy, but the umm 20? experience replacement points that enter the pool will become 25% with an equal amount of disbanee's entering.

[Keunert]

wallas: i thought you wanted to disband left over individual units or individual tank units to create full divisions / tank corps from scratch (paying pp to create those). those formationsould benefit better from cards as a card will affect three or four units instead of just one. At least in Case Blue this is something to think of once the german onslaught is getting slower. but before i felt like i needed every single unit available to build a continious front line. to disband units during summer would be an unaffordable luxury in Case Blue.

what i did and thought worked well was to recreate single tank bat from 5TA. i've set it on priority and tried to keep as many Tank Corps complete as possible. but reading you and Liquid i even think it would be best to disband most or all of the independent single tank brigades to form a few Tank Corps. the one thing that is against it is time and the constant need of more units.

[wallas]

ORIGINAL: Keunert
it would be best to disband most or all of the independent single tank brigades to form a few Tank Corps.

Brigades imo are not an ideal unit due to size, and are you going to play a attack card on full strength brigade ? The only soviet brigades I like are the destroyer brigades they are useful since they have a infantry component and can fortify. Tank brigades imo are not ideal for the situation in the summer of 42

[James Ward]

I try to keep a tank brigade with each infantry division in critical areas. It gives the Soviet infantry some punch on the attack and I was suprised how much it helped on the defense. Obviously you don't have enough for each division to have a brigade stacked with it.

[LiquidSky]

I agree...there were times early on when I attacked a russian hex only to have the only unit not retreated being the tank. Especially around Sevastopol, and it was quite annoying before I figured out to bring the Flak guns or some other unit with Anti-tank capabilities. Once you have that, though, the russian tank is one of the easiest things to dislodge. In fact a lot of times I will break them outright...if I bomb them first with a stuka.

[LiquidSky]

Turn 36: July 21, 1942. Weather Dusty.

The Russians launch attacks of opportunity where they see weak units along my front, especially in the north, killing a weak regiment. He also rails engineers wherever I have blown a bridge to effect repairs. He must have repaired the bridges I blew a couple turns ago, because a lot of fresh units show up in front of the 1st Panzer Army. Rostov no longer contains the Guards Rifle divisions that were there for most of the summer, so he must be starting to think of evacuation. The 5th Tank army moves back up to the line after being retreated.

Voronezh front: Having not learned their lesson the first time, I play another attack card on one of my divisions, and push two tank corps back 10km. With the arrival of the 29th Motorized into the line, I now have a division in every hex facing his army. My 44th infantry division crossed the Don a couple of turns ago, and is quietly securing a bridgehead. If he brings his Tank Army back over the Don, I will probably have to retreat back over the river...but then I would have cleaned out his bridgehead.

I launch several attacks on bridgeheads, winning most, but losing some. Soon I will own all of my side of the Don river.

Because my replacements are so small now, I play an infantry card for the second time in the game, for 7700 replacements.

I mean really, only 5 tanks?

[LiquidSky]

Caucaus Front:

The 11th army in it's spread out state, pushes against an even more spread out Russian on the rail towards Stalingrad. I know he has several unaccounted for Tank Corps, and a few Guards Rifle Divisions kicking around somewhere, and if I was a betting man, I would gamble that they are somewhere in front of me towards Stalingrad. With the Mighty Rumanians charging along the Don, I will soon be able to use them to make a more solid front with the 11th army.

With all three Panzer Korps in position, the XIV Panzer Korp with my 2 SS motorized push 30 km towards Zimovniki, and are adjacent to one of the two railines that feed Rostov. My airforce blows yet another bridge along the other rail line, and also hit the port of Azov to wreck it. My attempt to isolate Rostov (and it's several rifle divisions) continues.

It is interesting to note that the Russians still have enough units to hold a line, but There are cracks starting to appear. Will the dam burst, and release my fast mechanized units to run amok in the caucaus/drive for Stalingrad? I dont know, but I do have 9 panzer divisions and 4 motorized divisions (and 4 infantry divisions) in a 12 hex wide salient. Two of those panzer Korps have full command points. I would have thought that he would have pulled out of Rostov by now, especially since he just got prestige for it (again). I dont know if it immediately gave him another major mission to hold it, or if he is just stubborn [&:]. Although part of me wants to let him keep it, so I dont have to go for Krasnador. Nahhhhh [;)]

There are some partisans in the back, giving some Rumanians experience.

[LiquidSky]

Turn 37 July 23, 1942. Amazingly, the weather is still clear.

Not a single attack on my lines by a russian this turn. Down in the Caucaus, the russians disappear....pulling south over the river between rostov and lake Proletarskaya. Along the rail line to Stalingrad out of the Caucaus a large tank army appears. I can see nothing in front of my 14th Panzer Korp.

As a result, I swing south with the 14th, to sit along the river at the bridge, and move the 3rd Panzer Korp to guard against the Tank army to the east. Some of my 71st Panzer Korp attempts a bridge crossing with the help of the Italians! But fails....I notice that he had built a fortification in the hex, so I have to keep assaulting/bombing it to prevent it from gaining too much entrenchment level. I spread the rest of the panzer korp out along the river, so I can force a crossing *somewhere*.

My supply is still good enough to attack, with the 1st Panzer Army 11 hexes from a railhead (along a road)...passing supply to the 14th panzer korp 5 hexes further (down the road and over a blown bridge), who throws it a further 8 hexes to the furthest units for a total of 24 hexes from a rail head. Total AP cost 111 AP's so I can go a couple of hexes over clear terrain. A couple more when I repair the bridge.

Where his 5th Tank army used to be, I advance and take all the Don river hexes. In a couple of spots along the river, I try and push the last remnants of Russians back over the Don, but fail. But he probably cant keep up with the casualties, so it is only a matter of time before I own my side of the Don.

Last thing of note: I launch a raiding party onto the coast about 5 hexes down from Rostov. The purpose of which is to try and hold rail lines to cut supply off to the city, and pull defenders off what must be a rather stretched line...and to interfere with any withdrawals from the city into the Caucaus. This move will doom what is left of my fleet (he sunk all the warships in June), but I feel it is worth it.

[LiquidSky]

Something my opponent and I are noticing...

Blowing bridges may be a bit too over powered. When I drop a bridge,the engineer he has in the area waiting to repair it may sometimes not get enough supply to actually fix the bridge...if he is caught on the wrong side. I am not sure yet, as it appears to me that blowing the bridge at Krasnodar and cutting the other line with my panzer korp only puts Rostov at 75% supply, which is easily enough to defend.

But I am pretty sure he is annoyed he cannot just rail defenders out, or bring reinforcements in.

[LiquidSky]

Turn 38: July 25, 1942. Weather slightly overcast.

The Russians have decided to make a stand on the river between Rostov and the lake. He has a fair number of forces to hold back my infantry korp and two panzer korps, but with my invasion on the coast just south of Rostov, and my blowing all the bridges I can that supply this area, he has to use units from Rostov itself to try and contain me.

Last turn, Rostov was supposed to fall, but I begged High Command for more time, I only need a little more time! I will bust through the river line, and meet up with the invasion force to pocket Rostov and take 200,000 prisoners!

With my armour spread out along the river, I find 4 spots weak enough for my armour and infantry to cross...the dam is starting to burst.

[LiquidSky]

Turn 39: July 27, 1942. Weather: Oh oh.


The Russians counterattack one of my exposed infantry and reform a coherent front, still holding me back from breaking through to the coast. It appears that my bridge bombing campaign has left a bridge intact somewhere as a number of russians seem to be popping up on their south flank. As well, the russians decide to do some bridge bombing of their own, and take out the bridge on the rail line to Stalingrad, but at the loss of 65 Sturmovicks and 25 Po-2's. The bridge falling, along with the rain, causes me pain. I have to reign in my advance, as my lack of supply at the front is insane.

In a fit of righteous vengence, the Russians sink a Barge fleet, and my cargo fleet, leaving me with a solitary barge fleet left for a navy.

I manage to fly some supply to my invasion force, keeping them going for another turn.

Most of my army sits tight, although I do push fowward to occupy the front line where he retreated. As High Command demands that I take Rostov by this turn, I feel I have to decline, and due to the harsh Russian resistance decide to no longer ask for more time.

[LiquidSky]

Turn 40: July 29, 1942. Weather: Sunny again!

With the weather being mud, the russians withdraw further and I move up to follow.

With the loss of prestige for failing to take Rostov, I am now down to 48 Prestige. And with that loss I then make the farthest breakthrough I have ever made yet in this campaign! With a penetration of 40km, spearheaded by my SS motorized brigade, and two panzer divisions, a 20km gap is what seperates the land I control with the invasion, with my armour. I regret not asking for more time, as Rostov is now doomed, with a lot of his units probably going on low supply.

What is also sad, is I decided to transfer the panzer korp that made the breakthrough to a different army, so I was unable to play either freedom, or speed to give them an even greater penetration...

It reinforces something we have both noticed..that the Russians are penalized by mud, as they are not allowed to recover from the weather before the Germans strike..on the following clear weather turn.

[LiquidSky]

Turn 41: July 31, 1942. Weather: Wet and wonderful.

The russians launch a sneak attack on half a division on the wrong side of the Don, and push it back over the river, with 1000 men lost. In the Rostov area, the Russians go into a full rout, pulling completely out of Rostov, and moving as far south as they can, while still trying to hold a line.

But with the crappy weather, and most of my army in either blue or red supply, I decide to just occupy the city with the hungarians, and to cut off some russian stragglers.

The cost of some of my cards: Panzers 52, Fighters 52, Infantry 44?, SS Infantry 30, SS Panzers 36..but I do get about 35-45 political points a turn.

The only missions I have is 1 point for a town on the front, and 8 points for Stalingrad, but I am pretty sure Krasnodar will pop up next because of the fall of Rostov.