This is so hard

[countrboy]

Bought the game a while back but am finally giving it a real go. I'm finding that the game is just impossibly hard! It's more like a WWI slog-fest than blitzkrieg. It takes 2 German divisions to shift a Soviet unit, while it takes three Romanian divisions to achieve the same result. The only time I can win a battle with a single German division if it is a Pz division against no more than 1 Russian infantry division. Is this normal? And if there's 3 or more Russian units in a hex I have to muster at least 4 or 5 German units, or else I get the dreaded message 'attacker out of AP'. And the Fins! Don't even get me started on how useless they were in T1.

Casualties after the first turn were 30k or so German and 130k or so Russian. At that rate the Germans will run out of manpower before Christmas 41.

Of course I am still learning the game, but even so, you would think even a noob couldn't stuff it up too badly on turn 1.

[JoeyBlau]

I have yet to figure out how to win as german. I captured smolensk and had to give it up. Lenningrad? Ha! Kiev seems to be protected by 30 divisions.

After a while I just started requesting extra trains, fuel and PP every turn just to get moving.

[countrboy]

I thought perhaps I was too used to WiTE, where the Germans cut through the Soviets like a hot knife through butter, until winter and 1943. Obviously it's not just me. I just doesn't feel like 'Barbarossa' at all. More like Verdun or similar...

[countrboy]

Today I picked up Case Blue and Warsaw to Paris (they're on sale) so I might give them a go.

[DeriKuk]

It's a tricky game, and you have much to learn ... but here are some things you can start with:

1) Keep you units in supply/communication within their command structure. There is a reason for the OoB hierarchy.

2) Artillery is not "infantry with big guns", or merely there for decoration. Hesitate to attack without softening up target.

3) Stay focused on objectives. Read the victory conditions first.

[Huskalator]

I'm far from an expert in this game but I do feel like I can offer a few tips. At least against the AI... PBEM is a different story.

- Don't go toe-to-toe with Soviets that is playing directly into their hands. I'm never looking to go 1-to-1. Punch a hole in Soviet lines and drive those panzers through. At this point you decide whether to:
a) surround and cut off large chunks of enemy troops in a pincer OR
b) drive deep and hard taking all space available. Move into every nook and cranny. Drive at lightly defended bridges and cities. Pierce at your enemy's heart.
Whether you do a) or b) depends on terrain, objectives, and troops available.

- In general, use infantry for holding the ground your panzers take after they punch through. Think of them as the shaft of your spearhead. They follow right behind the tanks and seal off their rear. They also seal and mop up surrounded enemy which frees your panzers continue to drive on. That is in general obviously. I still attack quite a bit with infantry divisions I just make sure I have enough free to swing around through the gap.

Hope this helps!

[Yogi the Great]

Look for thread awful lot of Russians.

Many love this game, for me lost interest real quick but will try again sometime. You can't recreate historic situation as the designer decided to have extra Russians added early and to have them act differently and give a better defense than historic situation gave.

Again many do think this is one of the best games out there, I'm just not one of them. [:(]

[JJKettunen]

nevermind, was too harsh.

[lancer]

Hi,

To clarify one point, there are no extra Russians added to the game early (or later). The OOB is strictly historical.

The only deviation from this are the city garrisons and these are randomised to provide different game experiences - sometimes they are more than historically and sometimes less.

The Soviet AI is a lot smarter than the historical Soviet response but, if it wasn't, it would be shredded once the Germans started running rampant.

It's a trade-off.

The game also has a decent learning curve and would have benefited greatly from a smaller, introductory scenario.

If you're having trouble I'd suggest dropping down a level in difficulty below the default which has been pitched at providing a challenging game play experience to the typical player.

Defining a 'typical' player is more of a art than a science and, in retrospect, the default difficulty could have been a notch lower.

Cheers,
Cameron

[JJKettunen]

Could it be possible to implement, as a game option, Soviet AI that has historical deployment (with no variation), and which would act more historically, ie. not conducting a general pre-planned withdrawal everywhere?

[Duck Doc]

This game requires an extraordinary amount of dedication in order to succeed as the Germans. Hard to fault it though in this regard. The Germans, of course, never conquered Moscow or Leningrad and were eventually halted short of their expectations for Barbarossa by a bunch. It is indeed very difficult to crack a sturdy Soviet line of stacked and dug-in units but in can be done. I consider this one of the best gaming experiences I have had the pleasure to have in spite of my sore deficiency of skill and experience. I would have liked it less if it would have been easier. Agree completely about playing on lower difficulty levels.

[JJKettunen]

If the AI is only competitive with the current approach, then there are some serious design issues. Just as an example, I could imagine that the Axis side could do with much lower bonus values (if needed at all) if the initial state of the bordering Soviet forces were modelled properly (going through reorganisation).

[JJKettunen]

Ok, after playing with the easy mode (no self-respecting grognard will do it gladly[;)]) for 7 turns I see that the fronts are more fluid, something that one would expect. Shame if the AI can't handle bigger gaps later. Anyhow, forget my earlier ramblings, here's a reasonable suggestion: A "semi-easy" option with no extra trucks, trains nor political points.

[wodin]

I think the Russian are to stubborn and fight to well during the first few turns. Maybe the odd unit does put up a fight but really they should be a lot easier to blast through and they should dissolve during retreat as well. That's my opinion. On paper the game plays out how o paper strength the battle should but as we know the odds against the Germans blew through them which the game doesn't replicate well.

[countrboy]

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm prepared to give it more time, as clearly there is a learning curve. I guess the initial difficulty in cracking the Soviet lines was really stark for me as at the same time as playing Barbarossa I had just started a campaign as Germany in War in the East. The initial Soviet effectiveness in the two games is like comparing chalk and cheese...

[Yogi the Great]

ORIGINAL: lancer

Hi,

To clarify one point, there are no extra Russians added to the game early (or later). The OOB is strictly historical.

Ok, that may be so but when you can't eliminate enough because of their initial moves, retreats, line forming, digging in and/or any other game features you end up with a lot more Russians to face than historic situation. I don't know enough to say if the OOB has more Russian units or at what time they came in historically. I have played a number of Russian front games and as this game progresses it has a lot more Russian units surviving and on the board than those other games.

[John B.]

I'm playing the game now as the Russian and the Germans are certainly pretty good at pushing me around. It's early August 41 and they just took Kiev (ahead of the historical timeline) we're in a dog fight near Smolensk (in keeping with the historical time line) and they're closing in on Tallinn in Estonia (just a tiny bit ahead of schedule). I have not yet tried as the Germans but it does give me a few ideas on how to proceed with them when I do. I'm not sure what the German fighting power is when controlled by human but it's pretty impressive when controlled by the AI.

[User1988]

I'm a newbie myself at these sort of games, DCB is supposed to be one of the easiest to play, and I bought it a couple of months ago, I didn't even touch it without watching all the video tutorials and reading the logistics part from the manual. One needs to constantly be aware of supply conditions with the Germans and use the special cards, especially artillery, to stand a chance, and keep moving the forward supply base, having good relations with the army group commanders also gives you the chance of playing special cards that will buff your armies' offensive punch and then you also need to rest your armies.

[JJKettunen]

ORIGINAL: User1988

I'm a newbie myself at these sort of games, DCB is supposed to be one of the easiest to play, and I bought it a couple of months ago, I didn't even touch it without watching all the video tutorials and reading the logistics part from the manual. One needs to constantly be aware of supply conditions with the Germans and use the special cards, especially artillery, to stand a chance, and keep moving the forward supply base, having good relations with the army group commanders also gives you the chance of playing special cards that will buff your armies' offensive punch and then you also need to rest your armies.

Yes, but the balance problem (with normal difficulty) is there even when you know what you are doing. As already mentioned the Soviet AI is very capable of saving a lot of units from destruction, which can mean that the German side will end up facing walls of units much sooner than one would anticipate. When the shock bonuses dry up, it will turn into a slugfest.

[User1988]

I haven't had a proper go at it yet, lack of time, I shall starting today, but if it's anything like in real life you can't overpower the Soviets with Germany on all fronts and you'll need to focus on one front: capture at least the Ukraine and then rush the Caucasus to deny the Soviets of food and fuel, the rest aren't decisive from a strategic point of view.