Fire in the East (no Flavius please)

[Klydon]

I can see Leningrad supply not being eliminated (lake still has contact with Soviet territory), but I would think it should be reduced. The only time it would be eliminated is if the Axis can isolate the lake to prevent supplies from going across. (And hopefully the game reflects that).

This will make Leningrad a very tough nut to crack. The Germans had a chance at it by coupe-de-main early in the campaign. Against even average Russian play, that won't happen here. The German will face a very heavy grinding fight through some really terrible terrain to get there.

Overall outstanding campaign by the Germans. The steady offensive approach has a lot to recommend for it. I wonder if there was an opportunity to put some troops on rest and refit along the way so that some fresh troops would have been available here at the moment the Germans are at the gates of the 3 objectives.

[Michael T]

At the moment Leningrad is a stalemate. Neither of us being able to dislodge the other from any position. I have a new wave of replacements due in one turn. So the 16th and 18th Army from AGN and the 4th from AC will get all replacements for a renewed drive on Moscow and Leningrad. I now have siege guns on the way to Moscow. I really had no chance to refit an entire AG in one go at any stage as I was in pursuit most of the July period. But individual units yes. But PP are so precious. This game is a constant balancing act that is very hard to keep in control.

[Michael T]

29th August 1941

Before German moves.

At this point Flavius has conceded. Moscow is going to fall in the 4 to 5 turn range and I then only need to hold it for a month as I had taken an Independent Strategy which means take and hold any objective for a month and you win. Which in this weather will be simple. I have a replacement wave due next turn. And baring a delay the siege guns will arrive in 2 turns. They have just left Smolensk.

So the plan in AGC was to take Moscow with a rejuvenated 4th Army and hold/advance the flanks with 2nd Army/2nd PzGp to the south and 9th Army/3rd PzGp to the north.

In AGN I was going to use the replacement wave to boost 16th and 18th Armies for a final lunge to Leningrad. Not sure if that would be enough. Maybe the Finns would have helped?

In AGS I think I might have had a good shot at Rostov, as soon as the siege guns were finished at Moscow I would have sent them to Rostov, but who knows how long that would have taken. But 11th Army and 17th Army are still very strong and I see no reason why they would not have destroyed the Conscript Armies in front of them. 1st Panzer Army (minus a Panzer and Mot Division) was still quite a potent force.

Overall a fabulous game. I enjoyed it immensely and have learnt so much. But I have a feeling 1.02 is in favour of the Germans. If any of the devs are reading this I might suggest a small increase in the starting experience for the Conscript units as they really are quite useless baring defensive positions in good terrain/forts. They usually die for little or no losses inflicted on the Germans. They need to be able to inflict more damage for their sacrifice I feel. The only spot they managed to hold me off was in the forest hex to the south east of Luga. I just could not dislodge them. Maddening it was.

Thanks for a fun game Flavius, your skill deserved a better result.

You will see some stats below.

[Michael T]

Stats

[Flaviusx]

Thanks, MT, you played a great game. Personally, I think it's going to take more than tweaking conscripts to put 1.02 in order against someone who has mastered the system as well as you have. The new reinforcement schedule and higher card costs are pretty rough. In 1.01 I would've had a lot more stuff in the center a lot more quickly. And I would've been able to get defensive posture by this time. Here the stuff just arrived too late and I was only just getting defensive posture down in cost. That's a 60 PP expense now, which is serious sticker shock and hard to pull off with paranoia impeding the ability to save PPs.

Under these conditions and with sustained offensive, you just got ahead of the schedule and there was no way to catch up.

I believe I had you stopped cold in Leningrad and also Rostov. I had a ton of forces in Rostov and you would've had a difficult time crossing the river to cut it off. My only concern there was preventing the siege guns from being able to set up next to the place, but the rail hex in question you needed to do this was marsh and I had stuff in there pretty well dug in.

Conscripts are useless in any other capacity in this game outside of defensive actions where they enjoy high entrenchment levels and terrain advantages. Only during the winter do they gain any kind of real offensive capacity.

[Michael T]

Yes some other adjustments to the PP card costs and reinforcement schedules are probably needed too. I might suggest an interlude to see if the devs make any adjustments before we kick off again. Otherwise 1.01 might be a better game.

[Flaviusx]

Ok, I guess we are both due for some R+R ourselves, having banged out two quick games.

[governato]

where ALL those IDs in Leningrad still in full supply when the railway got cut off? I count five armies....

[Flaviusx]

They were all in supply so far as I could tell.

[governato]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

They were all in supply so far as I could tell.

One day..and that day may never come the ability to supply an entire front in Leningrad out of thin air may become a big exploit...but it should not be too hard to fix (WITE actually got *that* right...). I agree with your assessment so far, DCB is a great game, but will need a bit of work to 'balance' for PBEM... whatever balancing means! Maybe you could just have asked for more PPs along the game ...

Anyway... given the in built operational handicaps for the Red Army, balacing DCB should be easier than a more standard wargame as WITE, where `true' balance may require a skilled Axis player playing vs a more inexperienced Soviet one...

[Flaviusx]

Did a little compare and contrast on the reinforcement schedule between 1.01 and 1.02.

In 1.01 the Soviet gets all his regulars by turn 7. In 1.02, it takes until turn 15. Every one of these regular armies arrives in the center. In other words, you've got all of them on the map in 1.01 by mid July, as opposed to late August in 1.02. Doesn't seem like that would make such a big difference, but it does.

As per Goldilocks, we went from too hot to to cold on this and the right porridge is somewhere in the middle of that.

[Speedysteve]

I think the challenge is was is the right balance? Granted Michael played very well and has mastered some parts of the game better than others to date but it's still only one game (and we all know from WitE how many games were played before changes were made and even then it's taken several iterations - and some would say it's still not right now!)

Added to that, as Flav says, the varying skill levels and AI only players need to be taken in to account. It's not an easy one.