Fire in the East III (no Flavius please)

[Michael T]

20th July 1941 – Clear

Kicking off a new AAR from this point in the game. Using version 1.01. No helpers, Historical, Geneva OFF, No plots.

Flavius is the Soviet. This is actually our second game with 1.01 since our last AAR game with version 1.02. In the previous game with 1.01 we only got in to it about 6 or 7 moves when the Soviets resigned. Flavius tried something different with Zhukov and it all went wrong for him when Stalin chucked a wobbly on 26 June (2% chance). This resulted in the destruction of every front line unit in the Soviet Southern Command. Nothing escaped.

So here we are at T9 July 20th in the second game. So far things have gone fairly well for me in AGN. I have managed to destroy all the front line Armies (11th, 8th, BMD, and the 27th ) entirely. No survivors. I got Riga without the siege guns and took Talinn unopposed. Pskov has just fallen this turn. All armies are in SO except 1PG which is still in Blitz mode (both associated INF units are now in refit) , but I opted for the mid-range Blitz so fuel is only -1500 Bbls for a 30% attack bonus, AP’s are unaffected. FSB is at Durnburg.

This time I have split 1PG, 2 Mot units are hanging around Narva and the rest are at Pskov. This presents some challenges for the location of the HQ, not entirely solved yet.

I want Narva and Luga, this will guarantee Finnish entry at some point. Which should seal the fate of Leningrad. The right hook I tried last time is not worth the bother considering the unlimited supply capacity of Leningrad.

In AGC the Reds have run all the way back beyond Vyazma. They are too fast for us to catch. So not much has happened on this front since the initial front line battles. Again nothing escaped. I have just been mopping up, setting up my logistics and getting in to position. 9th Army is heading for Kalinin. 4th Army is still moving up the Smolensk motorway. 2nd Army has just been deployed in Bryansk. 3PG has just camped to the southwest of Tula. 2PG has just arrived between Rzhev and Vyazma. All PG and Armies are in SO mode. FSB is still at Vilnius. Should be able to move it next turn, hopefully Smolensk will be an option.

In the South a different matter. Here Flavius likes to fight, for at least while anyway. A general melee ensued just at the fringe of my logistical tether around Tarnopol. I did not lose any units this time but a Pz and Mot division were fairly trashed and two others a bit mauled. Just as I thought I had an advantage and might bag a bunch of guys with the my approaching infantry a vast pool of mud enclosed the battle area (the only area of the whole front I might add, very weird). Anyway Flavius took his chance to withdraw and left a few stragglers behind that could not move thru the mud. So for all my efforts and losses not much to show in the south. 5th, 6th and 26th Armies wiped out. But only a very few of 12th ,SW and 9th Armies have been lost. But we did trash a number of SW units in the fighting prior to the mud turn.

So since the big fight around Tarnopol he has run. I am now only just approaching Kiev and making contact with his units to the southeast of Kiev. Odessa still holds out. But since Riga did not require the big guns they are on their way and should arrive next turn baring delays. All Armies in SO mode except 11th and 4th Rumanian. FSB has just been ordered to Pro-Town.

Stay tuned.

[Iñaki Harrizabalagatar]

I want Narva and Luga, this will guarantee Finnish entry at some point. Which should seal the fate of Leningrad. The right hook I tried last time is not worth the bother considering the unlimited supply capacity of Leningrad.

I am playing a game in which I was able, with Finnish help, to encircle Leningrad area. After about 1 month, Soviet units started to surrender in large numbers, so i hope to take Leningrad in a couple of turns. So, the supply capacity of Leningrad is not unlimited.

[KenchiSulla]

Hi Michael,

Why, if I might ask, do you play without plots? Do you think it affects balance?

[Michael T]

@ Inaki, that is very interesting. I wonder why? Vic or Cameron, not sure who now. Said that the supply capacity of Leningrad was unlimited, or close enough to it for it not to matter.

[Michael T]

@Cf, I just prefer an historical set up or as close to it as I can get. I will probably try plots on at some point.

[Michael T]

24th July 1941 – Partial Mud

No maps this turn. Will update next turn.

This is the 3rd Mud turn this month. Enough already.

Not a lot to report. The Soviets are still running everywhere. It’s a problem with the game I have to admit. Not that I criticize the strategy from a gaming POV. But it seems the problem of Soviet runaways has not been solved. I don’t blame Flavius as he obviously sees this as his only chance to survive. So the primary problem is a balance issue to start with and a lack of penalties for running is a secondary issue. And this is with version 1.01, the supposedly pro Soviet version. I am almost ready to say the PBEM game is broken. It needs some PBEM TLC.

Anyway enough of that and on with the report.

In the north the Infantry are approaching Luga and Narva. The fighting will begin soon for these cities.

In the centre I order the FSB to Vyazma. We take Kaluga by ejecting a minor garrision and 3PG rolls thru an undefended Tula. 2PG is sitting tight around Vyazma to save on fuel while the FSB changes and to keep my options open at this point. I am not certain where to send it yet. Moscow is ringed with forts and about a hundred Soviet divisions.

In the south Kiev falls. The siege guns arrive at Odessa. 1PG is ordered in to refit.

[Michael T]

28th July 1941 - Clear

Game has been moving along slowly this week as Flavius has been busy.

AGN

The infantry finally arrive at the front and the first skirmishes occur. FSB is ordered to Pskov and PG4 has to move all the way down to Ostrov along with its 2 Mot units so it can then head north again to link back up with the main body of PG4. This front is going to turn in to a grind very soon.

AGC

The decision is made with PG2. It will slide to the south east of Moscow and support PG3 in a concerted effort to the north and east of Tula. The Luftwaffe is ordered to Tula. 4th Army will conduct a frontal assault on Moscow from the west. 9th Army will hold the line to the north. 2nd Army will support the 2 PG’s. This turn PG3 forces a crossing north east of Kaluga and probes to the east of Tula. A handful of Soviet units are trashed.

AGS

The siege guns finally arrive and set up only to find the Odessa garrison surrenders. Cowards! The Soviets blow the D-Town bridge. PG1 is still in refit. We welcome the Italians to the front.

Every formation is now in SO posture bar the Finns and PG4 who is still in Blitz mode. I have a lot of fuel in AGS. I might consider changing PG1 back to Blitz mode soon.

[KenchiSulla]

I'm again amazed by the speed of your advance.... However, it is not clear to me how you manage to achieve it...

[Speedysteve]

I think it's a combination of incredible play by MT and Sir Robin by Flav?

[Michael T]

Not much incredible play by me here. Flavius has been running everywhere until the last couple of turns. I have been struggling along just trying to keep up.

[Michael T]

5th August 1941 – Clear

AGN

A costly failed attack (yellow circle) and a hex gained adjacent to Luga. It’s a grind on this front.

AGC

Another costly failed attack (yellow circle) but more success to the north west of Ryazan (yellow arrows).

AGS

The Italians and Rumanians cannot take D-Town. 17th Army moves up to finish the job.

My main problem now is that the Soviet retreat has outstripped my logistical pipeline in the centre and south. In the centre my mech units are all at the line but I have very little fuel to run them. My rail link is too long. In the south same problem. And I am lucky to get one rail hex converted each turn. So it’s really up to the infantry.

[Michael T]

9th August 1941 – Clear

AGN
A better turn for Germans this go. 2 out of 2 successful attacks. We inch toward gaining enough hexes to attack Luga and Narva.

AGC
Moscow appears impregnable. In an effort to thin his defences and bring a manoeuvre element back in to the fight PG3 hooks up toward Vladimir and a Pz Corp makes a dash toward Gorki.

AGS
D-Town finally falls to 17th Army. Kharkov should fall next turn. PG1 heads toward Stalino.

Sorry for the width of this map. As you can see there really is nothing happening in the centre of the map so from now on I will focus on the three objectives only.

[ChuckBerger]

Gorki??! Isn't that an auto-win for you, and/or the sole source of supply for Russia?

No insult to your esteemed opponent for his strategy in this game, which makes some sense, but it doesn't really feel like the Eastern Front without a single Russian unit between Moscow and Kharkov, does it... it's like three entirely separate games with no connection.

[Michael T]

If I get Gorki its game. I expect it will be defended. Even if I only manage to cut the rail lines around it that should cause some supply issues for him.

I agree entirely with your sentiments about the disconnection and realism. We could start a new thread about this. But VP's not really meaning anything are at fault here. If the VP tally actually meant something in the victory conditions and/or Stalin's paranoia then you would not see such wholesale abandonment of Russia.

IMO PBEM is almost broken. If it's not officially fixed or even acknowledged then I am at a loss at what to do really. Baring a bunch of HR.

[Michael T]

I moved up to Gorki only to find a minor garrison and some high level HQ's. Not enough AP left to make an assault so I cut the rail line that leads back Moscow and that line supplies everything to the north and east of Moscow (Leningrad too). So I am curious if this will affect Soviet supply in this vast area. If I can hold that rail line for a few turns maybe the entire front will collapse, unless I can get Gorki in which case it game over anyhow. If Flavius has transferred an Army reinforcement and plonks it in Gorki it will be hard to take. But maybe I can cut Gorki off to the east and then it won't be able to take any units (no rail link). Then again perhaps Stalin will go crazy as I took Kharkov this turn and Flav won't be able to do anything. Maybe it will rain. So many possibilities...

[Michael T]

17th August 1941 – Clear

I know I promised not to do this again with the map but this will be the final map as the game should end here.

Gorki fell to PG3. I also took Luga this turn.

Flavius’s strategy of just defending the victory objectives almost worked. I think he could have afforded one less Army at Moscow and that could have been used to secure Gorki. I could not have dislodged a well dug in Army around Gorki.

So I have changed my opinion of balance in 1.01. With this strategy IMO 1.01 is probably balanced. But who really wants to play a game like this?

I hope the devs can offer some options that can help with PBEM balance. But please put something in to address these run away strategies. They are not fun.

If the devs can’t help well then maybe the editor and some HR can get the mix right. I still love the game. But PBEM needs some TLC.

[Gunnulf]

Are you sure that Gorky is an automatic game winner without Moscow as well (or indeed either of the other two)? I suspect that wasn't the intention of the game mechanism which I would think is to prevent a game that see's Moscow fall first and the central front destroyed to such an extent that its not necessary to have to play out to end of winter. If so it seems like an oversight and something that should be changed, the soviets are a fair way from defeated otherwise.

[Michael T]

First, I checked this condition with Cameron himself just the other day when the idea occurred to me. He confirmed it.
Second, Gorki is the Soviet supply source. So its loss is bad regardless of whether it ends the game.
Stavka and Central Front also died at Gorki.

Note, I was playing with the independent strategy. So any objective out of the three would give me a win, as long as I hold them for a month. I think Gorki should rank as one of the 3 (to make it one of the 4) even if the Auto was not there. As the Soviet should not be able to just ring Moscow and forget the rest of the central front and thus avoid defeat. At least with Gorki as an objective he has to defend that as well.

[Michael T]

This game is great. It just needs to get the T's crossed and dot the I's so to speak. If the devs don't fix it I will do it myself with the editor. My constraint though is time. And I much prefer to play than design.

[Michael T]

Under manual errata at the VR site:

4.6.1.1 Sudden Death Victory Conditions
The Germans can achieve this by taking Gorki OR by taking all three objective cities (with Kharkov or Sevastopol in addition to Rostov)