The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
A few things. First, regarding the UI and the strategy choices, you can always select a unit, click on its design name, wait for the design screen to pop up, change the strategy choices, click on save, and that's it, you've changed the strategy. You don't need to scrap anything.
Thank you for this tibbit. It is very helpful. Still, why am I forced to the design screen. Suppose I regular automate that part of the game? Because i regular do because I find the intire design screen badly set up. it is cumbersome and not at all easy to use. Logically to change orders for either ship or base should result from clicking on ship or base. In either case I learned something new and it was something that constantly ate at me.
Thank you for this tibbit. It is very helpful. Still, why am I forced to the design screen. Suppose I regular automate that part of the game? Because i regular do because I find the intire design screen badly set up. it is cumbersome and not at all easy to use. Logically to change orders for either ship or base should result from clicking on ship or base. In either case I learned something new and it was something that constantly ate at me.
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
ORIGINAL: eyegore
Science is observation and an act of proving assumptions. It's how we got from the World is Flat to the world is Round. The basis of Science is pretty consistant across the Universe, therefore it is anything but arrogant to expect intelligent life to evolve alone simuliar lines. And yes...you need a thumb.
You actually bring up an excellent point, and is one of the reasons why I despise assumptions.
"World is Flat" was the dominant 'scientific' theory on the Earth's shape for a long time in many regions, it was an unproven assumption with absolutly zero observational data to back it up. It was not until early scientists made observations that 'Sphere earth' finally triumphed as the dominant scientific fact.
Likewise, assumptions about the realism of alien races is nothing short of rediculous considering that we have not even discovered alien life. How can we be so arrogant as to make assumptions about that which we had never seen?
I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
Fair Question. Let's look at the popular Alien franchise. I remember when this first came out. Up to then all use sci-fi fans had as far as Hollywood was low budget b-movie sillyness. Now here was a movie that had a budget and it tried best it could to push "believable"....now decades later we can spot the many holes...like Florecent lights in the halls to a myraid of other illogical choices (after all hard sci-fi really would be using light imitting diodes...something that existed way back when I went to college to be an Electronic Engineer---and is today being used to replace L.C.D. televisions with L.E.D. televisions.
But that is splitting hairs really.. the overall truth of it was Alien was the first movie that put serious effort into sci-fi. It later evolved into mass media dumb with forthcoming sequels like Alien vs Predator and such--but the basic premise of at least the first 2 movies was my favorite because it leaned towards "beliavability."
And in that movie, the monster...was NOT a sentient being. In no way was it suggested that particular alien was a talking space fairing creature...but rather the unfortunate cargo of a sentient being the movie presented as a single dead enity in a chair in the spaceship that had crashed.
It went far south with the rediculous Riply monster in Alien Resurection...and the intire series went downhill. Promethius, as confusing as the plot is, or how stupid these top level scientists behave in it...show us the Engineers...and they are quite simuliar and humanoid. That was a conscious choice. They clearly wanted the audience to buy it. Had it been a talking roach it just would not fly anymore than it flies in DW dispite your best arguments.
So why start at the bottom in a 4x space game if your trying to make the best game possible? DW is not the 5th sequel in the series. It's the first....and your arguing B-movie 'attack of the Killer tomatoes' because "how do we know. A tomato could do that. We have no proof otherwise!"
The game, and any 4x space game for that matter already ARROGANTLY says all alien races are warlike and want power and space and can take over planets in mere days with troop pods and space fairing carriers. I guess it is all arrogance unless we include soft furry animals and hermit the cricket?
Truth is, it isn't arrogance at all. It's taste. And I've outgrown cartoons.
But that is splitting hairs really.. the overall truth of it was Alien was the first movie that put serious effort into sci-fi. It later evolved into mass media dumb with forthcoming sequels like Alien vs Predator and such--but the basic premise of at least the first 2 movies was my favorite because it leaned towards "beliavability."
And in that movie, the monster...was NOT a sentient being. In no way was it suggested that particular alien was a talking space fairing creature...but rather the unfortunate cargo of a sentient being the movie presented as a single dead enity in a chair in the spaceship that had crashed.
It went far south with the rediculous Riply monster in Alien Resurection...and the intire series went downhill. Promethius, as confusing as the plot is, or how stupid these top level scientists behave in it...show us the Engineers...and they are quite simuliar and humanoid. That was a conscious choice. They clearly wanted the audience to buy it. Had it been a talking roach it just would not fly anymore than it flies in DW dispite your best arguments.
So why start at the bottom in a 4x space game if your trying to make the best game possible? DW is not the 5th sequel in the series. It's the first....and your arguing B-movie 'attack of the Killer tomatoes' because "how do we know. A tomato could do that. We have no proof otherwise!"
The game, and any 4x space game for that matter already ARROGANTLY says all alien races are warlike and want power and space and can take over planets in mere days with troop pods and space fairing carriers. I guess it is all arrogance unless we include soft furry animals and hermit the cricket?
Truth is, it isn't arrogance at all. It's taste. And I've outgrown cartoons.
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
Except the popular alien franchise is not real life, it is just a movie. Just because aliens went one way, does not mean that we should have to go the same exact route. Unfortunately, I am not really too familiar on Aliens at all, I never really had much interest in the series.
As for talking Roaches, well, certainly people like insectoid races, so why not have them as a playable option? Same with the talking cats, rodents, squids, eldrich abominations, humans with bumpy forheads, and every other variety of alien out there. If you really dislike them, it is utterly trivial to disable them, you can even do it in DW1, make a mod, copy the race folder over, open the files for races you do not like, scroll down to 'Playable' and change that to 'no'. Done. That race will no longer appear in your games.
I like the idea of having enough racial choices that at least one will appeal to someone. Given, DW1's has a good selection of races (imho) but could definatly use improved art.
Theres a substantial difference between arguing for/against a race based on realism, which is where the arrogance comes in, and arguing based on taste, which is a lot more objective. I dislike when people try to push their personal taste as realistic, and that is where the term 'arrogant' is aimed at.
As I said, though, DW1's biggest issue in regards to races is that the portraits are not that great. The racial descriptions are vague enough that any potential artist has a lot of leeway in making a race look awesome... or lousy.
As for talking Roaches, well, certainly people like insectoid races, so why not have them as a playable option? Same with the talking cats, rodents, squids, eldrich abominations, humans with bumpy forheads, and every other variety of alien out there. If you really dislike them, it is utterly trivial to disable them, you can even do it in DW1, make a mod, copy the race folder over, open the files for races you do not like, scroll down to 'Playable' and change that to 'no'. Done. That race will no longer appear in your games.
I like the idea of having enough racial choices that at least one will appeal to someone. Given, DW1's has a good selection of races (imho) but could definatly use improved art.
Truth is, it isn't arrogance at all. It's taste. And I've outgrown cartoons.
Theres a substantial difference between arguing for/against a race based on realism, which is where the arrogance comes in, and arguing based on taste, which is a lot more objective. I dislike when people try to push their personal taste as realistic, and that is where the term 'arrogant' is aimed at.
As I said, though, DW1's biggest issue in regards to races is that the portraits are not that great. The racial descriptions are vague enough that any potential artist has a lot of leeway in making a race look awesome... or lousy.
I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles
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RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
ORIGINAL: Nanaki
Note that the current limit on insect size is also based off of atmospheric temperature and composition... sometime in the distant past the world was a lot hotter and more O2 rich, which resulted in some fairly massive insects.
Indeed, I believe the oxygen content in the atmosphere was about 30% (as apposed to 20% now). Definitely upped their maximum build size.
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
As I said, though, DW1's biggest issue in regards to races is that the portraits are not that great. The racial descriptions are vague enough that any potential artist has a lot of leeway in making a race look awesome... or lousy.
Actually mod wise DW's flaw is the races core are hard coded. You can make an insect race passive or aggressive, but it core behavior remains that of an insect with natural enemies like cat races. there really currently isn't any way to make a new unigue race, but only subraces within the confines of what is already there. DW extended mod may give you more insect races but at their core they all play like insect races, as do humans or riptiles and so on.
I'd love to do an Emperor of the Fading Suns mod for DW but it simply cannot be done. The game does not have ideological options but rather pins it's behavior differences instead on 'race' like cat and mouse or dog vs cat. That is a certain weakness in the design and one I hope a DW2 opens up...as games like Alpha Centuri or the recent Pandora:First contact show you do not need talking cats to define racial differences.
In those games i want to play each race, as each race plays distinctly different. Not so much in DW. That is a major flaw no mod can fix right now- and is an area I certainly hope they lean towards in DW2.
Actually mod wise DW's flaw is the races core are hard coded. You can make an insect race passive or aggressive, but it core behavior remains that of an insect with natural enemies like cat races. there really currently isn't any way to make a new unigue race, but only subraces within the confines of what is already there. DW extended mod may give you more insect races but at their core they all play like insect races, as do humans or riptiles and so on.
I'd love to do an Emperor of the Fading Suns mod for DW but it simply cannot be done. The game does not have ideological options but rather pins it's behavior differences instead on 'race' like cat and mouse or dog vs cat. That is a certain weakness in the design and one I hope a DW2 opens up...as games like Alpha Centuri or the recent Pandora:First contact show you do not need talking cats to define racial differences.
In those games i want to play each race, as each race plays distinctly different. Not so much in DW. That is a major flaw no mod can fix right now- and is an area I certainly hope they lean towards in DW2.
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
ORIGINAL: NanakiORIGINAL: Fenrisfil
Second on my wish list would be a complete reworking of population, planet habitability and colonisation, allowing proper planetary terraforming, dome colonies, populations working and paying tax on large space stations and stuff like that. Installations and troops on worlds that aren't yet colonies would be part of that. All of that is unlikely to be workable until a sequel. So from my point of view, DW2 is definitely necessary!
Thing is, there are a few things here I do not necessarily agree with... Terraforming is one of the few things I dislike, simply because of the inevitability of a race eventually converting all planets into environments of its liking. Imagine an entire system full of nothing but continental planets, or an entire system full of nothing but volcanic planets, infact, these very situations happened during my playthrough of Hegemonia: Legions of Iron. Simply put, it takes character out of colonies and turns them into a mass-produced paradises for the race in question.
If it is done properly it shouldn't be a problem. There is a whole wide range between only colonising planets already good for you and being able to turn every bit of rock you find into the equivalent of a natural colony.
To do it correctly it has to be an option, but not the best option. It should take time and resources to alter a planet to full habitability and if the main goal is to expand quickly it should be a very poor option.
How I see it working would be that you establish self contained bases on planets, these are simple at first but are expanded via installations to provide mining, research and resort functions (as an alternative, not full replacement to orbital bases). You can also add extra habitat installations that expand the potential population (up to a limit). Once you've researched the technology you can build teraforming installations that can alter the planet in limited ways and upon reaching a certain level of habitability your bases turn into a full colony. At this point the habitability level would be about equivalent to the current 51% quality rating and further progress continues to be slow. There would also have to be an absolute cap. Now the decision to teraform these planets would likely be because of key resources, strategic locations or simply that there aren't enough naturally habitable planets around. If there is a habitable planet in a nearby system it should make no sense at all to just try and teraform a nearby planet instead.
True, eventually a race may turn every planet into a habitable one, but only after they'd have reached a point of total stagnation anyway and after several thousand, maybe millions on years, so I don't see a problem with that and even that could be dealt with by simply imposing a limit.
Of course they may not do anything like this or even touch the current habitability model, the point is that it is that simply including teraforming isn't going to break the game unless it is done badly and there are a whole load of things which can break the game if done badly.
Come to think of it though (and to bring this back on track to the OP's question), these anti-teraforming comments just kind of proove the point I made about why this stuff is sequel material and not DLC stuff. In a sequel if people don't like it they can just go back to the previous game (Like with Civilisation). It isn't so easy with updates or even DLCs.
AMD Phenom II X4 3.2ghz, 16gb ram, 64bit Windows 7, Radeon HD6900.
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
Science is very much speculation, yes, but it's also about putting what you observe into context. There are basic laws of physics that we have reason to think are constant across the universe but we don't really "know" that for sure. And then there are more fluffy topics, like "intelligence", which is hard to define to begin with and which we've only ever observed on Earth. How do we put that into context? We can't, because we don't know enough.ORIGINAL: eyegore
Science is observation and an act of proving assumptions. It's how we got from the World is Flat to the world is Round. The basis of Science is pretty consistant across the Universe, therefore it is anything but arrogant to expect intelligent life to evolve alone simuliar lines of those found on Earth. And yes...you need a thumb.
Besides we already know your bias based on your Avatar. In a court of law you'd be proclaimed a hostile witness and would likely be easily impeached by a clever defense attorney. You favor Minnie and Micki Mouse and will stop at no ends to push the agenda to include them in any 4x game known or planned.
One of the more important things in science is knowing when you've got enough data to build a hypothesis and when you don't. And keep in mind that a hypothesis in itself is utterly worthless if it can't be tested.
Therefore I maintain that it is arrogant to assume that intelligence requires humanoid features. We know that we haven't observed non-humanoid intelligence capable of space travel and we might speculate that it isn't possible, but ultimately we don't, AFAIK, have any data saying it can't possibly happen.
Most games with a polished UI have a certain number of features that UI designers can work with. Elliot, on the other hand, had an initial UI and initial features, and then he had to find room for new features along the way. And I don't think he fancies redoing the UI every time he adds stuff.Thank you for this tibbit. It is very helpful. Still, why am I forced to the design screen. Suppose I regular automate that part of the game? Because i regular do because I find the intire design screen badly set up. it is cumbersome and not at all easy to use. Logically to change orders for either ship or base should result from clicking on ship or base. In either case I learned something new and it was something that constantly ate at me.
But I do agree that per ship strategies would've been better than having to get it done through the design window. More intuitive too.
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
ORIGINAL: eyegore
Actually mod wise DW's flaw is the races core are hard coded. You can make an insect race passive or aggressive, but it core behavior remains that of an insect with natural enemies like cat races. there really currently isn't any way to make a new unigue race, but only subraces within the confines of what is already there. DW extended mod may give you more insect races but at their core they all play like insect races, as do humans or riptiles and so on.
Huh? You can edit both Race Families, and Race Family Biases. You can also add (and remove) them as well. Infact, DW Extended even adds a new race family called 'Avian' that is not present in the original DW. It is certainly moddable.
I'd love to do an Emperor of the Fading Suns mod for DW but it simply cannot be done. The game does not have ideological options but rather pins it's behavior differences instead on 'race' like cat and mouse or dog vs cat. That is a certain weakness in the design and one I hope a DW2 opens up...as games like Alpha Centuri or the recent Pandora:First contact show you do not need talking cats to define racial differences.
Distant worlds does have ideological differences, it is coded into governments. Governments have ideological differences between eachother much like races do, and infact, are just as strong as racial biases. The strongest racial biases go from +20 to -25 (and that includes the biases of both individual races and families, added together), wheras the strongest government biases go from +20 to -30.
As for needing talking cats, that is true, you do not need talking cats, but we can take that a step further and say that we hardly need aliens either, and instead play up the differences between humanity. Infact, a huge number of intellectual properties do just that, and are perfectly fine for it.
We have talking cats because we want talking cats, and talking rocks and talking gerbils and talking eldrich abominations and talking humanoids of a billion flavors. We have such things not because we need them but because we want them.
Which brings me to a little prophecy I made in regards to the human race: Even if we humans are alone in the universe, we will end up creating aliens of our own. Even in real life we are rapidly approaching the capability to successfully do it, the only thing thats left is is the psychological will, and while there are strong laws at the present moment, they will likely sooner or later be broken or rewritten.
In those games i want to play each race, as each race plays distinctly different. Not so much in DW. That is a major flaw no mod can fix right now- and is an area I certainly hope they lean towards in DW2.
Except what you were talking about and the problem your referring to are entirely different issues. The problem your referring to now is that a lot of the races really are not all that mechanically different from eachother, and this is a valid complaint. I mean, if you mechanically compare the Securans, Shandar, and Atuuk, you will see that there is almost no difference. All three are happiness-focused races with maybe one minor, secondary attribute. That is a valid complaint, and one that is not easily fixed considering that DW gives you only a limited amount of tools to define differences between the races, and a lot of those tools do not even work properly. Most racial bonuses do not work with pirates at all, for example.
I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
So the alien just happened to evacuate into the escape pod when Ripley set the self-destruct? Total coincidence? And the queen in Aliens just happened to want to visit the space ship?And in that movie, the monster...was NOT a sentient being. In no way was it suggested that particular alien was a talking space fairing creature...but rather the unfortunate cargo of a sentient being the movie presented as a single dead enity in a chair in the spaceship that had crashed.
Those creatures obviously weren't hugely intelligent per se, but they were smart enough to understand unfamiliar threats against their survival.
Actually the game doesn't say that at all. Plenty of races aren't particularly warlike and are happy to be at peace. If you want to bash something, it probably should be the foundation on a capitalist human civilization that all the races share. Be it bugs or space bunnies or rats or fishies, they all have an identical private sector and their implementations of various forms of government are identical and the culture barriers are insignificant. Want walking snacks and psycho bugs to live side by side? No problem.The game, and any 4x space game for that matter already ARROGANTLY says all alien races are warlike and want power and space and can take over planets in mere days with troop pods and space fairing carriers.
I'm sorry, but this is wrong. Assuming a universal constant without having data to base that assumption on is arrogant and science is not taste.Truth is, it isn't arrogance at all. It's taste. And I've outgrown cartoons.
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RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
Hell yes I got this game a few weeks back and it's blatantly obvious that the best thing the devs could do - no matter how good an idea this game is and how great the gameplay is - is rewrite it with all their past lessons and knowledge put into a new version.
Keep in mind, people are still plahing SKYRIM because of the modding capabilities and those devs know when they release skyrim 6 people will buy the hell out of it knowing they will get their moneys' worth.
The UI is awful.
The graphics are .. ok.
The inability to mod the AI, mod 99% of the game is awful.
Changing those 3 things could make this THE 4x easily imo. (If it's not already).
Can't be done without a rewrite and I can see why just looking at it. I applaud any talk of DW2.
Keep in mind, people are still plahing SKYRIM because of the modding capabilities and those devs know when they release skyrim 6 people will buy the hell out of it knowing they will get their moneys' worth.
The UI is awful.
The graphics are .. ok.
The inability to mod the AI, mod 99% of the game is awful.
Changing those 3 things could make this THE 4x easily imo. (If it's not already).
Can't be done without a rewrite and I can see why just looking at it. I applaud any talk of DW2.
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
By the way, since we're also talking about the races in the game, and since I've apparently been labeled a fairy tale fan based on my avatar, I'd like to add that I've never actually played as the Zenox. I will at some point, but I've just not gotten around to it yet. But I do like cats and I like the smug look of the cat in the Zenox pic. And no, despite my username I don't actually like spiders much. And yes, I very much like having cat-people in the game, because why not?
We have all sorts of unrealistic space combat, all kinds of hugely unrealistic planetary invasions, we've got faster than light travels galore, we've got stationary space stations that are supposedly hard to destroy even though any asteroid on a collision course ought to do the trick. This kind of sci-fi is inherently unrealistic so why shouldn't there be furry cat-people around? And lizard-people? And insects? And squirrels and rats and turtles and snakes and dolphins and tree people and orks and trolls and undead and sentient robots? Space 4x is inherently unrealistic to begin with so why hold back and limit the diversity of life?
We have all sorts of unrealistic space combat, all kinds of hugely unrealistic planetary invasions, we've got faster than light travels galore, we've got stationary space stations that are supposedly hard to destroy even though any asteroid on a collision course ought to do the trick. This kind of sci-fi is inherently unrealistic so why shouldn't there be furry cat-people around? And lizard-people? And insects? And squirrels and rats and turtles and snakes and dolphins and tree people and orks and trolls and undead and sentient robots? Space 4x is inherently unrealistic to begin with so why hold back and limit the diversity of life?
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RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
ORIGINAL: Spidey
By the way, since we're also talking about the races in the game, and since I've apparently been labeled a fairy tale fan based on my avatar, I'd like to add that I've never actually played as the Zenox. I will at some point, but I've just not gotten around to it yet. But I do like cats and I like the smug look of the cat in the Zenox pic. And no, despite my username I don't actually like spiders much. And yes, I very much like having cat-people in the game, because why not?
We have all sorts of unrealistic space combat, all kinds of hugely unrealistic planetary invasions, we've got faster than light travels galore, we've got stationary space stations that are supposedly hard to destroy even though any asteroid on a collision course ought to do the trick. This kind of sci-fi is inherently unrealistic so why shouldn't there be furry cat-people around? And lizard-people? And insects? And squirrels and rats and turtles and snakes and dolphins and tree people and orks and trolls and undead and sentient robots? Space 4x is inherently unrealistic to begin with so why hold back and limit the diversity of life?
Pfff, cat people in my 4x... preposterous... oh look battlebots.
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
Relax Spidey, I think the topic is done, no need to beat the dead horse more than absolutly necessary.
One thing that is curious as to why Zenox troops are all robots, youd figure that robotic troops are already represented by the robotic troop foundary's battlebots. They are also the only race (aside from Mechanoids, for obvious reasons) whom uses robotic troops as their mainline infantry.
ORIGINAL: thefinn
Pfff, cat people in my 4x... preposterous... oh look battlebots.
One thing that is curious as to why Zenox troops are all robots, youd figure that robotic troops are already represented by the robotic troop foundary's battlebots. They are also the only race (aside from Mechanoids, for obvious reasons) whom uses robotic troops as their mainline infantry.
I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
So the alien just happened to evacuate into the escape pod when Ripley set the self-destruct? Total coincidence? And the queen in Aliens just happened to want to visit the space ship?
Those creatures obviously weren't hugely intelligent per se, but they were smart enough to understand unfamiliar threats against their survival.
You totally lost me with this. The alien didn't waltz into the escape pod, Ripley forced it in. Rewatch the scene or better yet, read the book, which is far more in depth than the movie. Again, book or movie, the actual Alien was Cargo...discovered by Ripley's team. The actual Space fairing race that hauled that Cargo is called The Engineers. Distinctly humanoid--as the main plot of it'd prequel--which there will be a 3 film trilogy- was WE-as humans were created by the Engineers (as seen in the opening where the Engineer drinks the fluid, falls into what is clearly Niagra Falls and the special effects show it's DNA being destroyed and reworked to create Man (or us). The actual aliens in the Cargo was originally intended for Earth BTW-to destroy us as a creation gone wrong, and the film ends with the Scientist not taking the logical safe path to escape back to earth but the illogical path to seek out the Engineers to see why they changed thier minds about us.
Although the next two movies are yet done The engineer tearing off david's head should give viewers a clue as to what that "why" is, as throughout the movie Humans look down upon thier own creation (David) and repeatedly disbarage him throughout. The Engineer seeing this creation showing even a worse reaction and sees a greater abomination and immediately destroyed it.
The alien itself , and it's intelligence is shown as no more than a typical insect with a basic "Hive' instinct and it's desire to defend it--though there is a scene in aliens where Ripley threatens to burn the eggs if the queen doesn't back off this along doesn't indicate anymore intelligence than the same lesson taught to a family dog. Instinct drives it's actions, like most creatures on this planet and is not to be confused with "reasoning' of an intelligence equal or even a bit below our own.
More interesting and if your seeking more concrete proof that even the Alien World is filled with Religion I'll copy paste an insert from an interview with the director:
Through Shaw and Holloway's investigations, we learn that the Engineers not only created human life, they supervised our development. (How else are we to explain the numerous images of Engineers in primitive art, complete with star diagram showing us the way to find them?) We have to assume, then, that for a good few hundred thousand years, they were pretty happy with us. They could have destroyed us at any time, but instead, they effectively invited us over; the big pointy finger seems to be saying 'Hey, guys, when you're grown up enough to develop space travel, come see us.' Until something changed, something which not only messed up our relationship with them but caused their installation on LV-223 to be almost entirely wiped out.
From the Engineers' perspective, so long as humans retained that notion of self-sacrifice as central, we weren't entirely beyond redemption. But we went and screwed it all up, and the film hints at when, if not why: the Engineers at the base died two thousand years ago. That suggests that the event that turned them against us and led to the huge piles of dead Engineers lying about was one and the same event. We did something very, very bad, and somehow the consequences of that dreadful act accompanied the Engineers back to LV-223 and massacred them.
If you have uneasy suspicions about what 'a bad thing approximately 2,000 years ago' might be, then let me reassure you that you are right. An astonishing excerpt from the Movies.com interview with Ridley Scott:
Movies.com: We had heard it was scripted that the Engineers were targeting our planet for destruction because we had crucified one of their representatives, and that Jesus Christ might have been an alien. Was that ever considered?
Ridley Scott: We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose. But if you look at it as an “our children are misbehaving down there” scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, "Let's send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it." Guess what? They crucified him.
So again I do not agree with the assumption any race can be made with DW. Governmeent types are shallow bonus's as is what you can actually tinker with in regards to growth rate, agression level or whatnot. You cannot inject any form of ideal that is religious based, there can be no EMOFS church or whatever. And most popular sci-fi fiction from alien to 2001 reject talking kittens as an option to define a race. It uses instead idealogical and religous slants to fuel the differences.
The black slime in the movie reacts to the nature and intent of the being that wields it, and the humans in the film didn't even know that they WERE wielding it. That's why it remained completely inert in David's presence, and why he needed a human proxy in order to use the stuff to create anything. The black goo could read no emotion or intent from him, because he was an android.
Shaw's comment when the urn chamber is entered - 'we've changed the atmosphere in the room' - is deceptively informative. The psychic atmosphere has changed, because humans - tainted, Space Jesus-killing humans - are present. The slime begins to engender new life, drawing not from a self-sacrificing Engineer but from human hunger for knowledge, for more life, for more everything. Little wonder, then, that it takes serpent-like form.
Those creatures obviously weren't hugely intelligent per se, but they were smart enough to understand unfamiliar threats against their survival.
You totally lost me with this. The alien didn't waltz into the escape pod, Ripley forced it in. Rewatch the scene or better yet, read the book, which is far more in depth than the movie. Again, book or movie, the actual Alien was Cargo...discovered by Ripley's team. The actual Space fairing race that hauled that Cargo is called The Engineers. Distinctly humanoid--as the main plot of it'd prequel--which there will be a 3 film trilogy- was WE-as humans were created by the Engineers (as seen in the opening where the Engineer drinks the fluid, falls into what is clearly Niagra Falls and the special effects show it's DNA being destroyed and reworked to create Man (or us). The actual aliens in the Cargo was originally intended for Earth BTW-to destroy us as a creation gone wrong, and the film ends with the Scientist not taking the logical safe path to escape back to earth but the illogical path to seek out the Engineers to see why they changed thier minds about us.
Although the next two movies are yet done The engineer tearing off david's head should give viewers a clue as to what that "why" is, as throughout the movie Humans look down upon thier own creation (David) and repeatedly disbarage him throughout. The Engineer seeing this creation showing even a worse reaction and sees a greater abomination and immediately destroyed it.
The alien itself , and it's intelligence is shown as no more than a typical insect with a basic "Hive' instinct and it's desire to defend it--though there is a scene in aliens where Ripley threatens to burn the eggs if the queen doesn't back off this along doesn't indicate anymore intelligence than the same lesson taught to a family dog. Instinct drives it's actions, like most creatures on this planet and is not to be confused with "reasoning' of an intelligence equal or even a bit below our own.
More interesting and if your seeking more concrete proof that even the Alien World is filled with Religion I'll copy paste an insert from an interview with the director:
Through Shaw and Holloway's investigations, we learn that the Engineers not only created human life, they supervised our development. (How else are we to explain the numerous images of Engineers in primitive art, complete with star diagram showing us the way to find them?) We have to assume, then, that for a good few hundred thousand years, they were pretty happy with us. They could have destroyed us at any time, but instead, they effectively invited us over; the big pointy finger seems to be saying 'Hey, guys, when you're grown up enough to develop space travel, come see us.' Until something changed, something which not only messed up our relationship with them but caused their installation on LV-223 to be almost entirely wiped out.
From the Engineers' perspective, so long as humans retained that notion of self-sacrifice as central, we weren't entirely beyond redemption. But we went and screwed it all up, and the film hints at when, if not why: the Engineers at the base died two thousand years ago. That suggests that the event that turned them against us and led to the huge piles of dead Engineers lying about was one and the same event. We did something very, very bad, and somehow the consequences of that dreadful act accompanied the Engineers back to LV-223 and massacred them.
If you have uneasy suspicions about what 'a bad thing approximately 2,000 years ago' might be, then let me reassure you that you are right. An astonishing excerpt from the Movies.com interview with Ridley Scott:
Movies.com: We had heard it was scripted that the Engineers were targeting our planet for destruction because we had crucified one of their representatives, and that Jesus Christ might have been an alien. Was that ever considered?
Ridley Scott: We definitely did, and then we thought it was a little too on the nose. But if you look at it as an “our children are misbehaving down there” scenario, there are moments where it looks like we’ve gone out of control, running around with armor and skirts, which of course would be the Roman Empire. And they were given a long run. A thousand years before their disintegration actually started to happen. And you can say, "Let's send down one more of our emissaries to see if he can stop it." Guess what? They crucified him.
So again I do not agree with the assumption any race can be made with DW. Governmeent types are shallow bonus's as is what you can actually tinker with in regards to growth rate, agression level or whatnot. You cannot inject any form of ideal that is religious based, there can be no EMOFS church or whatever. And most popular sci-fi fiction from alien to 2001 reject talking kittens as an option to define a race. It uses instead idealogical and religous slants to fuel the differences.
The black slime in the movie reacts to the nature and intent of the being that wields it, and the humans in the film didn't even know that they WERE wielding it. That's why it remained completely inert in David's presence, and why he needed a human proxy in order to use the stuff to create anything. The black goo could read no emotion or intent from him, because he was an android.
Shaw's comment when the urn chamber is entered - 'we've changed the atmosphere in the room' - is deceptively informative. The psychic atmosphere has changed, because humans - tainted, Space Jesus-killing humans - are present. The slime begins to engender new life, drawing not from a self-sacrificing Engineer but from human hunger for knowledge, for more life, for more everything. Little wonder, then, that it takes serpent-like form.
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
ORIGINAL: eyegore
And most popular sci-fi fiction from alien to 2001 reject talking kittens as an option to define a race.
- If popularity was the sole determinator of anything, the X4 genre would not even exist
- You are talking about novels, these are games, entirely different formats
- Honor Harrington and Known Space, if you want feline aliens, infact the Kzinti are likely the inspiration for the Kilrathi, Mrrshan, and all the other warlike felines that were popular in X4s for awile.
- Ender's Game and Starship Troopers has insect aliens
- A vast majority has no aliens at all, bringing back my previous point "As for needing talking cats, that is true, you do not need talking cats, but we can take that a step further and say that we do not need aliens entirely"
- The aliens novels never took off, to my knowlege, so to call them 'popular' is completely incorrect
I ate the batter of the bulge at Hans' Haus of Luftwaffles
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- Posts: 91
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 2:40 pm
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
ORIGINAL: Nanaki
Relax Spidey, I think the topic is done, no need to beat the dead horse more than absolutly necessary.
ORIGINAL: thefinn
Pfff, cat people in my 4x... preposterous... oh look battlebots.
One thing that is curious as to why Zenox troops are all robots, youd figure that robotic troops are already represented by the robotic troop foundary's battlebots. They are also the only race (aside from Mechanoids, for obvious reasons) whom uses robotic troops as their mainline infantry.
I had also noticed that, and yet the zenox troops act like any others in terms of stats etc.. I don't mind them getting them but they should adhere to the standards for battlebots in that case.
More than likely it's a bug or error by someone.
- DeadlyShoe
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:15 pm
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
The church from EOFS is mostly a matter of map setup and scripting, which is actually fairly capable in DWU. I don't know if you can set up triggers based off techs and the AI certainly wouldn't care about tech restrictions but you could set up NPCs that get angry at you for reaching for forbidden fruit.The modding limitations simply would not allow the concept of a Church from a Emperor of the Fading Suns. The Diplomacy is lacking as well. Too much remains hard coded or limited by the engine itself. If they don't create such a World at least allow the community to create it through mods---
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
The names of various troops are specified in the race files and that's really the only difference between the Zenox troops and all the other troops. In other words, Zenox have normal troops that simply have a robot-like name. It becomes a bit silly when battle bots are added to the mix but it's hardly a major issue nor all that hard to fix.ORIGINAL: thefinn
ORIGINAL: Nanaki
Relax Spidey, I think the topic is done, no need to beat the dead horse more than absolutly necessary.
ORIGINAL: thefinn
Pfff, cat people in my 4x... preposterous... oh look battlebots.
One thing that is curious as to why Zenox troops are all robots, youd figure that robotic troops are already represented by the robotic troop foundary's battlebots. They are also the only race (aside from Mechanoids, for obvious reasons) whom uses robotic troops as their mainline infantry.
I had also noticed that, and yet the zenox troops act like any others in terms of stats etc.. I don't mind them getting them but they should adhere to the standards for battlebots in that case.
More than likely it's a bug or error by someone.
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- Posts: 210
- Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:56 pm
RE: The future of Distant Worlds - Is DW2 necessary?
ORIGINAL: Spidey
We have all sorts of unrealistic space combat, all kinds of hugely unrealistic planetary invasions, we've got faster than light travels galore, we've got stationary space stations that are supposedly hard to destroy even though any asteroid on a collision course ought to do the trick. This kind of sci-fi is inherently unrealistic so why shouldn't there be furry cat-people around? And lizard-people? And insects? And squirrels and rats and turtles and snakes and dolphins and tree people and orks and trolls and undead and sentient robots? Space 4x is inherently unrealistic to begin with so why hold back and limit the diversity of life?
I'd like to mention that several of these things are actually fully possible and even likely.
