Ethical question: MAYOR SPOILERS

[bertipa]

This is more an Ethical than a Technical Question:

Now that we know who the SAKATURI are what is the 'correct' way to deal with them?

1 - Kill at first sight
2 - Trade embargo them hoping that they will declere war earlier
3 - Wait their move and pretend to know nothing

The first choice is a little simplicistic, unethical and brings the match to a quick end
The second choice is still not correct but the war usually start in a balanced situation
In the third choice I feel a little stupid and, when all the chips are down, they are not nice neighborhoods.

[Tree Dog]

The correct way to deal with them, is to do it the way you see fit...
I very much doubt any race+government in DW will have the same understanding as us of what is ethical and what isn't. You decide yourself what is ethical to your empire and what isn't, and most importantly, if Shakturis are worthy of ethic considerations.

[bertipa]

Yeah, right, but I was asking more if option 1 and 2 were like cheating... or not?

[Data]

It depends on how hard you want to make your own game and how enjoyable, I would call these options as cheating ourselves but not cheating in the actual sense.
And welcome to the community bertipa, which ever option you take I hope you have tons of fun.

[Bingeling]

Either run by your AI advisor.

Or look by your population's attitude. If they are fond of them, free trade. If they are annoyed, trade embargo. If they are furious. Declare war with limited objectives (contested bases).

[jrhindo]

How to see what your population thinks of other empires?

[ASHBERY76]

ORIGINAL: jrhindo

How to see what your population thinks of other empires?

Diplomacy screen.You click on another Empire and then look by your Empire.

[Igard]

I always role play whichever race I'm running. So, if they appear on the far side of the galaxy from me and there's really no imminent threat, I'll let them establish their empire. Then I pay the price.

[ehsumrell1]

ORIGINAL: Igard

Then I pay the price.

i.e. Forty cases of aged Romulan ale! [:D]

[bertipa]

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Either run by your AI advisor.

Or look by your population's attitude. If they are fond of them, free trade. If they are annoyed, trade embargo. If they are furious. Declare war with limited objectives (contested bases).

I like that. Will try it.

Thanks.

[bertipa]

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Either run by your AI advisor.

Or look by your population's attitude. If they are fond of them, free trade. If they are annoyed, trade embargo. If they are furious. Declare war with limited objectives (contested bases).

BTW the AI advisors are heavily infiltrated by the Sakaturi so I never mind them unless they point their eyes on pirate bases.

The population attitude seems less biased.

Will see what a little of populism will bring.

[Data]

little populism...now that's a good oxymoron [:)]

[Kayoz]

ORIGINAL: bertipa

Yeah, right, but I was asking more if option 1 and 2 were like cheating... or not?

I think you have to consider the evidence before you can decide what action is appropriate.

1. When they first appear, they claim to be refugees from another galaxy - yet show up with a competely developed world. How they managed to move their entire world should raise reasonable doubts as to their refugee claims.
2. You should have discovered a great deal of galactic history regarding their past. Whether or not you think the discovered archives are sufficiently damning is a personal consideration.
3. Depending on your race, it might be completely justifiable to attack them regardless of what claims they make. An incredibly sweet planet with rather paltry defences - some races might consider this an open invitation to invade, while others might consider it prudent to nip the potential problem in the bud - avoiding the potential humanitarian crisis of a conflict by acting preemptively.

Personally, I attack them on sight. Any race that's dangerous enough to cause galaxy-wide genocide isn't worth the risk of allowing to run free.

[bertipa]

Unfortunately my usual strategy is one of diplomatic expansion: by the time they arrive half of the galaxy is in a mutual defense agreement with me and I'm in free trade with the rest (by the way if I want to see them at all I have to up the galaxy percentage needed to win).

So any harsh position against them is 'out of character'.

> Personally, I attack them on sight. Any race that's dangerous enough to cause galaxy-wide genocide isn't worth the risk of allowing to run free.

But that is the problem isn't it? You know that but your 'Empire ruler' character don't.

At that point the Ancient Guardians share almost all the suspicious characteristics with them.

[bertipa]

I have the feeling that it is a design fault.

Tha Sakaturi should be any new empire who pops out via 'Minor race upgrading' or 'Waked up after eons of sleep'.

The 'Immigrant from another galaxy' could be them, good guys or neutrals.

The AI players shold be able to mask in the diplomacy screen the technologies who they don't want to share or make you know that they have it.

The Shakaturi should have a tech that let them disguise really well... that would explain how they were able to infiltrate so well your advisors.

... or they can be the Ancient Guardians waiting for reinforcement/recontact from the intergalactic homeworld to start the shooting.

That will solve the ethical problem and will add a good dose of paranoia.

[cookie monster]

They should storm into the Galaxy guns blazing, troopers ready for action, destroying empires before you've even hit pause.

I did have them turn up as refugees in one game but it ended it with an auto victory shortly after.

[Bingeling]

I had them turn up as refugees in the game I did not want to play, but have not seen them in the ones I kind of want to play...

[Kayoz]

ORIGINAL: bertipa

But that is the problem isn't it? You know that but your 'Empire ruler' character don't.

How so? By the point they show up, you have uncovered all the galactic archives explaining the mass genocide and history of aggressive expansionism of the Shakturi. Surely the "Empire ruler" would see all of these archives in great detail?

ORIGINAL: bertipa

At that point the Ancient Guardians share almost all the suspicious characteristics with them.

Whatever gave you the impression I wasn't out whooping their shiny metal arses at the first opportunity? I play "realpolitik" in 4X games. Given the actions of USA "bastion of democracy" - 1846-1848 Mexico-American war, to the more recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan... how can the most Machiavellian outlook be "out of character"?

[bertipa]

> How so? By the point they show up, you have uncovered all the galactic archives
> explaining the mass genocide and history of aggressive expansionism of the Shakturi.
> Surely the "Empire ruler" would see all of these archives in great detail?

Point is that when they show up they are not called Sakaturi and only the player know who they really are, not the Empire ruler Character.
When they show they real color they are sometimes too powerful.

But the basic point is that as is implemented the storyline push you in doing things that are out of character... OK, OK, If you are waging war to all the semisentient life you have meet you are not touched by this problem.

> Whatever gave you the impression I wasn't out whooping their shiny metal arses at the
> first opportunity? I play "realpolitik" in 4X games. Given the actions of USA "bastion > of democracy" - 1846-1848 Mexico-American war, to the more recent wars in Iraq and
> Afghanistan... how can the most Machiavellian outlook be "out of character"?

Yeah, that is my liberal/pacifistic until I can expand without trouble/bleeding heart problem.
After I knew who they were I just leaved them alone until they come to my side for the Grat War.

But that also is not exactly correct from an external point of view.

[Data]

Not sure how we could get around this from an RP point of view, whatever the storyline is. You'll know it the first time you play it so you'll be prepared next time.