Guide to Armour

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FingNewGuy
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Boulder, CO

RE: Guide to Armour

Post by FingNewGuy »

ORIGINAL: Aeson

Getting at least the lowest level of armor early is always worthwhile, since railguns have a chance to bypass shields but have trouble penetrating armor and pirates tend to field lots of railguns. What the good minimum and maximum values for armor are is rather more difficult to answer, as it depends a lot on what else your design carries, what kinds of weapons your opponent is fielding, and what your steel situation looks like (armor tends to require lots of steel) - if you don't see any railguns in play, then it's not unreasonable to not use any armor at all as you can theoretically tank all the damage on your ship's shields, although I'd say it's better to have at least a minimal amount of armor (perhaps 5 or 10 plates for something of at least 300 size) than to go completely without; similarly, lots of phasers would tend to suggest a low-armor strategy because phasers are good at penetrating armor but have low enough DPS that shield regeneration can be a bit of an issue for them. On the other hand, if your enemy is fielding lots of high DPS weapons like blasters, you'll probably want more armor because your shields are less suited to dealing with high DPS and low per-shot damage (high DPS should rapidly overcome the shield regeneration, but low per-shot damage means that the armor is more likely to absorb the shots rather than being destroyed). Note that if you're facing a weapon which is very likely to destroy one armor plate per shot, you're probably better off relying mostly on shields regardless of whether the weapon is high DPS or not.
One quick thing I feel like saying, however, is that I'm not sure I follow the idea of using TBs as an alpha strike weapon. They're a rapid fire weapon rather than a heavy hitter and they excel exactly because their cooldown is minimal. Rather than alpha striking and running out of juice, I'd personally much prefer just go with 13 per HypFus. PLs would be a solid alpha strike weapon due to the damage and fire rate but a reactor is the same space as two PLs, so the gain by going alpha instead of continuous doesn't strike me as huge.
Thinking about this further, it occurs to me that, as far as Phaser Lances go, going with an alpha strike optimization is not a terrible idea - the alpha strike optimization given in the above tables has 2.97 damage per size unit on the alpha strike and 0.71 DPS per size unit sustained, while the sustained DPS optimization has an alpha strike of only 1.61 damage per size unit and a sustained DPS of 0.77 DPS per size unit. Thus, the alpha strike optimization has nearly double the alpha strike while losing less than 10% of the sustained DPS, at least per size unit dedicated to weapons and the supporting reactors. Larger vessels with a greater percentage of their size taken up by weapons will benefit more from a Phaser Lance alpha optimization than smaller vessels will, as smaller vessels are less able to support enough Phaser Lances to have a meaningful difference between the alpha strike and sustained DPS optimizations. This is significantly better than the percentage trade-off with the Titan Beam, which gains ~5% extra damage on the alpha strike while losing ~28% of its sustained DPS per unit size dedicated to weapons and supporting reactors. Moreover, because the Phaser Lance alpha strike optimization doesn't fully utilize the reactor output and you probably have some energy storage capacity available from the fraction of your ship's reactors which are supporting the static and cruising energy requirements, the Phaser Lance alpha strike optimization can be boosted to have a slightly larger alpha strike while bringing the sustained DPS closer to that of the sustained DPS optimization, whereas increasing the alpha strike on the Titan Beam alpha strike optimization will only worsen its sustained DPS per size unit dedicated to weapons and supporting reactors relative to the sustained DPS optimization. I would still tend to say that a Titan Beam alpha strike optimization is fairly decent for a small vessel, since small vessels don't really have that much staying power in the first place, but the trade-offs between the alpha strike and sustained DPS optimizations using the Phaser Lance are much more favorable, especially for larger ships. (I have edited the tables to include the Phaser Lance (cont.) entry in the Alpha Strike table and the Titan Beam (alpha) entry in the Continuous DPS table, since these are worth having for comparing the trade-offs on the optimizations.)

Awesome. Thanks![:)]
FarAway Sooner
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:15 am

RE: Guide to Armour

Post by FarAway Sooner »

Just one more question, and I apologize if I missed it in the thread above, but am I correct in assuming that, if a shot penetrates armor AND destroys armor, then the act of destroying that armor uses up damage points that made it past the armor? (e.g., in Erik's first example in the OP where 2 damage penetrates, if the random number generator determines that the 20% of a "destroy armor" result actually happens, does that mean that 1 damage destroys the basic armor component (basic armor is a Size 1 component, I believe) and another one passes on to destroy some other component?

Or is the armor destruction assumed to come from the damage that was already absorbed by the Reactive Rating?

I haven't had this much fun figuring stuff out since first using the hit tables in Avalon Hill's Tobruk title back in 1983!!
Yank31
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:59 am

RE: Guide to Armour

Post by Yank31 »

ORIGINAL: FarAway Sooner

Just one more question, and I apologize if I missed it in the thread above, but am I correct in assuming that, if a shot penetrates armor AND destroys armor, then the act of destroying that armor uses up damage points that made it past the armor?

Given what I read above, I'd say so.
in Erik's first example in the OP where 2 damage penetrates, if the random number generator determines that the 20% of a "destroy armor" result actually happens, does that mean that 1 damage destroys the basic armor component (basic armor is a Size 1 component, I believe) and another one passes on to destroy some other component?

No, I'd suppose the size formula does not apply to armor components, because armor components have standard rating and reactive rating instead.

So if 2 damage "penetrates" (gets past the reactive rating reduction), then they face the standard rating (10) and not the size (1). And that is why the chance of destruction is 20% (because 2/10 = 0,2 = 20%). So there is no residual damage in this case.

There would be residual damage only if the damage that "penetrates" (gets past the reactive rating) are superior to the standard rating.

The size rule regarding destruction does not apply for armor.

At least, that's my understanding, given the above thread.
I haven't had this much fun figuring stuff out since first using the hit tables in Avalon Hill's Tobruk title back in 1983!!

I'm a tad younger but I do enjoy this whole game more and more as a find gems in this forum \o/


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Also I had a question of my own : we speak a lot about standard rating and reactive rating but that's always for ONE piece of armor.

As far as i understand, there is no particular value in having, say, "600" armor. Other than having 60 times 1 piece of armor. Not sure if I make sense here...

In other words, it seems to make much more sense to say "this ship has 30 pieces of armor, each one having a standard rating of 10 and a reactive rating of 4", than "this ship has 300 armor, with a reactive rating of 4" (which is what the ship design window does, though - I guess for the sake of simplification and looks).

I guess my issue is that you lose the information about the "standard rating" value in the latter case, which seems to be quite primordial, much more than the total armor value of a ship, if I understood this whole thing correctly.


Edit : I know how to make sense.

Let's consider the basic armor (std 10, react 2) and the UD armor (std 40, react 10).

Now, for the same TOTAL value of 400 armor on one given ship, that would take 40 pieces of basic armor or 10 pieces of UD armor.

But given, well, basically everything above, one can clearly see that a "400" total armor ship (with basic armor) is way, way weaker than a "400" total armor ship (with UD armor).

In other words, what seems to actually matter is of course the ratings, and immediatly after the number of armor components, while the actual total armor value seems to have little to none practical... value.

I guess I solved my misunderstanding :)
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